The last comment at my last post set a wheel in motion in my brain, it's not that i have time to post right now actually ; i'm working two jobs and i'm really beat...but anyway, I thought I'd drop in a quick explanation regarding a few accusations made by a few loving or otherwise readers.
First, Annie, I don't really support the occupation, but that doesn't require my support for its withdrawal necessarily. The only thing that I really understand right now is that there is no really clear, 1-2-3 way out in this fucked up political condition anymore, in fact, there are only guys who are looking for their own interests. That could mean turning a blind eye to horrible atrocities and creating a pan-Arab hero out of a bloody tyrant, or simply focusing on that tyrant's atrocities all day long perhaps as a justification to cover today's crimes. People like t to hear what they want to hear, seeing people become simplistic entities with cartoonish views of right and wrong has taken out a huge chunk of my faith in human nature. The thing is, if the owner of this blog knows one thing, then it's that nothing is really for sure anymore, it's a huge unjust, unfair mess, be it history, social conduct, politics, secularism or religion. Also, the person known as Anarki13 once said that i'm a know-it-all twat, in fact, what you are witnessing is really just soul-searching, that hopes at getting somewhere in the end. All i did in my recent posts is just copying transcripts of what well-known authors have said, i didn't bring anything out of my own pocket. However, I must say that I've always thought of you as somebody who never listened to anybody's opinions and actually never even took the views of anything seriously but his for that matter, including my own views. So judge not, okay?
Talk about being konfused... :)
36 comments:
Dear Kid
I don't see any point in accusing you of supporting the occupation.
I can feel what you feel and I really understand our problem as a very complicated multi factorial one.
I don't support the government of Al-Maliki; I do hate America and I do support destroying the invaders in Iraq but I'm pleased hearing that the situation is a bit better now in the dearest Baghdad; we've got people who want to live a normal life.
Take care
Yes. A&E, everyone is saying Baghdad now is much more 2005 than 2006.
Keep up the excellent posts.
A philosopher once said (sorry, don't know who), "The beginning of true wisdom is the realization that we actually know nothing at all". Well, I think that we all know some things. However, some of what we think we know may be wrong. Anyway, I think that the basic message of the philosopher was that we and all of our "knowledge" are still quite small compared to the universe. Even on our little planet, there is still much to discover.
I place no trust at all in people who loudly claim to have all the right answers. People like this tend to attract devoted followers who invariably inflict bodily harm or death on whatever variety of infidel their narrow definition of reality perceives.
Your soul-searching and quest for wisdom are good things. I wish you luck as you continue this journey.
Nice to see you again, Kid. :)
Umm...congratulations (I think?) on the two jobs! I hope you are at least enjoying one or both or something. :)
Soul searching is good. Gathering as much knowledge about as many things as you can is good. But why do you have to actually get somewhere in the end? Why not just try to enjoy the journey? And really, you know, if you do it right, it's a journey that never ends. :)
A&EIraqi,
I'm sorry you hate my country. It actually is a nice country. And if you gave those invaders (I assume you aren't referring to Al-Qaida, but our forces) a chance, they might be able to help Iraq get back on it's feet. At least enough so they could remove themselves. Which is, after all, what you want.
I am glad you are back. I have been checking your blog, and was about to give up when I saw you again.
I hear a lot of talk about the war here, and believe very little of what I hear. I appreciate the comments of someone like yourself who is close to the action. Especially when it is more often than once every 39 days. I look forward to hearing more from you.
Tom,
Actually the Kid is in his 20's and has already finished college. "Kid" is perhaps a bit of a misnomer. ;)
Nice to hear that Omar is doing well. We don't see enough of him anymore either. Maybe you will get a chance to meet Ali and Mohammed as well.
Hello konfused kid?
انت شلونك شأخبارك شكو ماكو
I see that you are 'currently' watching valley of the wolves - Iraq.
Have you seen it? Your opinion?
Could you post your opinion somehow for other Iraqis (not for me, I know the movie)?
My guess is that sometimes Iraqis don't know how 'nationalistic' Turcs are.
Well, that list is over a month old, I will update it with what I'm currently watching, but i will perhaps post a review of the most awful movie i've seen this year.
we talked about that movie because of Turkey's current actions regarding Iraq.
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/iraqimojo/8765123219996500661/#178457
That's all!
Hi Kid. How did you manage to get two jobs in Jordan? I'm guessing you're an exceptional employee judging by your writings, but two jobs seems like a coup in that job market.
Tehaneenen ya Kid. I'm glad you're doing well.
Kid, should we not talk about Saddam's crimes anymore?
You're a good person kid. I wish people wouldn't color their views of Iraq through an anti or pro-American lens,but it happens. Iraq has an opportunity to be the envy of the Middle East. Arabs are no less human for having been born into repressive regimes. They deserve the same liberties the rest of us take for granted. It's not too late for Iraq to show the way. THAT'S what we should all be focused on.
Man I downloaded that Valley of the Wolves movie not knowing anything about it beforehand, and I had my Mom watch it so she would translate the Turkish parts for me: BAD idea. Turkish nationalism is insane.
well kid, i'm sorry you or anyone considered my last comment an accusation. i thought it reflected a reality. i certainly didn't mean it as a condemnation. Omar and BT have both expressed their approval of the continuation of the occupation. i think it is extremely reasonable for anyone to have grave concerns about what may happen if they leave.
I really understand right now is that there is no really clear, 1-2-3 way out in this fucked up political condition anymore,
how could anyone argue w/that? of course.
First, Annie, I don't really support the occupation, but that doesn't require my support for its withdrawal necessarily.
ok kid, i am speaking really honestly here. i believe there are no neutral thoughts. i believe this strongly. i can perfectly understand how you might not necessarily 'really' support the occupation. while it might not require your support for withdrawl it does not relieve you, in your heart of hearts, from having a preference.
you are between a rock, and a hard place.
ok, i am going to use a very extreme analogy to make a point. what if you were being tortured. what if you believed it was immoral to tell a lie. what if, while being tortured you had to make a choice between telling a horrible lie, or dying. might you think something like I don't really support lying, but that doesn't require my support for giving in?
in other words you don't have to 'support' lying, to choose it. you choose it because at this point in the juncture, you judge this is your best option however abhorrent it might be.
so while i apologize for using the term 'support'. because i am very familiar w/supporting 'part' of something.
our state department just gave all those involved in the massacre incidence immunity.
you may have to tolerate it. as long as you support the occupation anyway. or do you just support 1/2 of it?
in reality as i am sure you know, our occupation is not limited to the military. one would be remiss in considering the occupation as a whole. it is not all hearts and minds soldiers. one can't eliminate what dirty private military (militias) tactics amount to. some of these people are guns for hire mercenaries from some unsavory places w/experience in unsavory warzones. they are professional ,unless they aren't. when i said, "or do you just support 1/2 of it?" what i mean is i am not so sure you can choose and pick who is your occupier. you can't take the protection and good aspects and slice off the naughtys and send them home. as i said earlier you are between a rock and a hard place. that 'not wanting them to withdrawl'...them includes blackwater. just like choosing to live includes lying in my analogy above. choosing (ie support) lying vs dying.
if i was to flippant i apologize. i never should have made light of your struggles.
People like t to hear what they want to hear, seeing people become simplistic entities with cartoonish views of right and wrong has taken out a huge chunk of my faith in human nature.
me too
nothing is really for sure anymore, it's a huge unjust, unfair mess, be it history, social conduct, politics, secularism or religion.
if i may add ,and/or economic.
i have always though well of you, and very thoughtful and articulate, tho i have disagreed w/some of your assessments. you have a very original voice and your soulsearching is always apparent.
that said, somehow in this mess one weighs conflicts in one's mind. you and i have simply come to some different conclusions. possibly not in terms of the immediate present, but in the long view. some fundemental differences, tho probably wanting very very similiar outcomes.
perhaps you are weighed the strengths the occupation can offer, and somewhere in your mind, the risks (blackwater, cheney, neocons, corrupt politicians, hypocricy)) do not outweigh the potential for peace w/the occupation. i have deducted that the designers of this war, and occupation, are not worth the long term risks, tho there could be many people who are positive for iraq.
the repercussions of any/all choices is staggering. neither one of them can offer any guarantee, or likelihood of success in any timely fashion.
the only way iraqis are going to get rid of blackwater is to demand it. there needs to be unification. as long as 1/2 the personnel is private, and you have a non representive government you have to condon w/possibly this most lethal part of the occupation.
I must say that I've always thought of you as somebody who never listened to anybody's opinions and actually never even took the views of anything seriously but his for that matter, including my own views. So judge not, okay?
again, sorry you understood my response as a judgement. actually i was hoping you would answer my question wrt the topic, of the conflict, the dual sides of the coin. it is at the ehart of the matter, is it not. because as an american, i hear this sentiment all the time, of people who want to believe in the positive qualities of the military, but having grave doubts about the mission, and leaders.
as for the not listening, so be it. i will try to listen harder. i must admit, the post before last i found confusing and didn't give it the energy it deserved to understand all your thoughts. partly because i am religion impaired.
as for never taking the views of anything seriously, this tells me a lot about your perceptions of who i am, so i am grateful for your honesty. frankly, i would love a day, just one, where i could not take this war seriously.
annie
annie wants iraqis to fight the americans! even if it means getting killed. isn't that nice of annie?
"isn't that nice of annie?"
That's awesome, annie. Way to fight your country on the backs of Iraqis' suffering!
It's not just lefties who want to see Iraqis fighting the Americans. The non-Iraqi Arabs want to see Iraqis fighting too. As Qatar hosts CENTCOM and Saudis trade their stocks on NYSE, the Arabs condemn the Iraqis who work for Americans and call them "traitors".
*sigh*
That's our Annie, never say in two words (I'm sorry) what you can say in 100. Gotta through in the everything is America's fault chaser. Can't waste the opportunity.
There is no black or white in the issue of Iraq. There is no good and bad. The occupation is bad, but Al-Qaida and Mahdi army are much much much worse. They would turn Iraq into a cave age state. The only good thing now to do is to forgive each other and unify the country, but that is almost immpossible beacause of the mentality of Iraqies. And by the way the situation in Baghdad is "good" because every major neighbourhood is ethnic icleansed except Saydiya ( a real sivil war is going out there). When a side will win it will also "good" beacause there will no "wrong sect" people to kill.
Hmmm...just realized.
That "through" in my last comment, should really be "throw".
Can't think what I was thinking when I wrote that. Obviously a brain freeze. :(
Gotta through in the everything is America's fault chaser. Can't waste the opportunity.
*sigh* That's our lyn, never deal w/the topic, when a strawman will suffice. Can't waste the opportunity. through, throw, either way you evaded quoting me wrt that assertion.
unless you can find some 'everything is americas fault' chaser in that comment.
well, it's been interesting. kid, i am done w/this thread unless you choose to comment on my response, if not, i will just asume you stand by the opinions in your post.
Anarki13 once said that i'm a know-it-all twat,
well, i certainly wouldn't go that far. as for blanket statements that 'know-it-all' about me.. i will easily be satisfied to listen to the strawmen of your other commentors to back up your assertions.
it really must have really hit a nerve for you to address my comment as a post.. a little part of me feels quite honored.
again, thank you for expressing to me your thoughts, your words say volumes about you.
annie
Annie,
Gotta through in the everything is America's fault chaser. Can't waste the opportunity. Lynnette
*sigh* That's our lyn, never deal w/the topic, when a strawman will suffice. Can't waste the opportunity. through, throw, either way you evaded quoting me wrt that assertion. Annie
First, in regard to the "it's all America's fault" assertion I made:
You speak of an occupation by our military and also private security contractors as if they are the only factors that matter when considering the violence in Iraq. There are others involved as well, Annie. Or maybe I should now say were, as they seem to be weakened considerably after the surge, and the violence has dropped. Since you don't bother to look at all aspects of the situation, yes, as far as I am concerned you are merely showing your usual bias against the United States.
Second, in regards to the topic on which the Kid posted:
I addressed the Kid earlier on the point that was the most important to me.
If you are referring to the part of the post where the Kid talks about your comment then I would have to say that my reaction was rather like the Kids. I thought your comment seemed to come out of left field. I don't think anyone supports an occupation. Not the Kid and not even the bloggers you mentioned. However, some may understand that our presence is still necessary to prevent a total collapse of Iraq.
We are now withdrawing a brigade from Iraq. It will be a test of how the Iraqis handle more responsibility. That is, will they, or won't they, fall back into some form of sectarian fighting. And will Al-Qaida be able to regroup.
I don't think anyone supports an occupation.
are we playing word games? just say it lyn, "i do not support the occupation". that should be easy if you truly believe your assertions. i dare you.
AN occupation is not, was never, the point. so lets not mince words. we are, and always have been referring to THE occupation, the one occurring now, the one we have recently been informed will last 20 years (at least).
You speak of an occupation by our military and also private security contractors as if they are the only factors that matter when considering the violence in Iraq.
prove it. you accuse me of something "Gotta through in the everything is America's fault chaser". now back it up.
the topic was surrounding kids comment (in italics) wrt blackwater. i addressed that in particular. is your casher container in what i DID NOT address?
excuse me if i am splitting hairs, but it does occur to me , that rather than furthering the discussion in a forward direction, you are thwarting it, picking at straws that do not exist. for what?
prove it lyn, this You speak of .. as if, doesn't quite cut the mustard. i ADDRESSED the conflictions. the rock and the hard place.
it serves no purpose to make eachother wrong. ideally people will come to understanding. my intention w/my original comment was never to make kid wrong, only to point out the confliction. for when one chooses protection that may be temporary, one may find the medicine eventually kills him.
a rock and a hard place lyn. get it? there is no 'as if' wrt factors that matter when considering the violence.
if i had not considered other factors, who would be the hard place?
*sigh*, just lookin' to pick a fight?
Second, in regards to the topic on which the Kid posted:
I addressed the Kid earlier on the point that was the most important to me.
...
"But why do you have to actually get somewhere in the end? Why not just try to enjoy the journey? And really, you know, if you do it right, it's a journey that never ends. :)"
wow, reassuring? something tells me this may be a journey some hope will end sooner than later. expecting one to 'enjoy' this particular journey seems bizarre.
as far as kid's observation, that i don't really take other peoples views seriously, i must admit, you are a challenge in this regard.
*sigh*
Annie,
Sooooo...you weren't done with this thread. You came back quick enough. lol!
"i do not support the occupation".
What occupation, Annie? Last I heard Iraq had a government. Granted, not a pretty one, but definitely there. They have been complaining about it often enough. How could you miss it?
Or are you referring to our troops presence on Iraqi soil?
Aren't we kind of stuck there until we are sure that the violence has ebbed enough for the Iraqi security forces to handle? Wasn't that everyone's complaint, that we didn't stop the violence? So how can we if we aren't there?
the topic was surrounding kids comment (in italics) wrt blackwater.
Which topic? I never left a comment for you on the previous thread. I have been referring to your comment here on this post. The post where the topic was...er...you and Kid's soul searching. And as I said, I originally chose to comment on that which I thought was the most important.
expecting one to 'enjoy' this particular journey seems bizarre. Annie
...in fact, what you are witnessing is really just soul-searching, that hopes at getting somewhere in the end. Kid
Bizarre, Annie? Really? Why? It sounds to me like the Kid is doing something that more people should do. That is, examining themselves and the world around them. And, yes, there is a wealth of knowledge to be had out there. Not all of it unpleasant. The writings of Al-Wardi, for example, were very interesting and informative.
No Annie, I am not trying to pick a fight with you, anymore than those other people who may have commented about your comment here.
What occupation, Annie? Last I heard Iraq had a government.
more word games.
Gotta through in the everything is America's fault chaser.
i would like a copy and paste job to demonstrate your assertions. not some long winded hypothetical. shouldn't be too difficult, just copy my words. since you called it a chaser, i am assuming it falls at the end somewhere.
Sooooo...you weren't done with this thread. You came back quick enough. lol!
that's what i get for answering your questions. thanks for reminding me how futile that is.
oh my, i realize you didn't ask any questions, just more assumptions, accusations and assertions.
Or are you referring to our troops presence on Iraqi soil?
no i was referring to the ENTIRE occupation. troops and private militias hired by the US, whether they be blackwater, or any other mercenary/'security' company. the occupation is represented by 300,000 people. 1/2 of which are private.
the topic was surrounding kids comment (in italics) wrt blackwater. i addressed that in particular. is your casher container in what i DID NOT address?
you ask what topic?? my topic lyn, the topic of my post. both here, and in the last thread. the one kid referenced.. here..The last comment at my last post set a wheel in motion in my brain,
get it? i just assumed he was not referring to that comment in chinese. i referenced something he wrote at the end of his post in that thread.
oh and by the way, blackwater, fuck you. do you think we will tolerate this anymore?
i realize it may be hard for you to comprehend. as for soulsearching wrt to occupation, the war, iraq, i realize it might be easy for some people so relax and enjoy the process. for others it may not be so.
"But why do you have to actually get somewhere in the end? Why not just try to enjoy the journey? And really, you know, if you do it right, it's a journey that never ends. :)"
well lyn, wrt kid's words no really clear, 1-2-3 way out in this fucked up political condition .... guys who are looking for their own interests.... turning a blind eye to horrible atrocities and creating a pan-Arab hero out of a bloody tyrant, ...focusing on that tyrant's atrocities all day long perhaps as a justification to cover today's crimes.... seeing people become simplistic entities with cartoonish views of right and wrong ... my faith in human nature.... nothing is really for sure anymore, ...huge unjust, unfair mess, be it history, social conduct, politics, secularism or religion.....just soul-searching, that hopes at getting somewhere in the end.
those words lyn, i am not sure these thoughts are condusive to 'enjoying the journey' i would imagine having this journey 'never end' might not be so 'fun'.
but that is just me.
Annie,
*sigh*
I am not going to take the time to copy and paste something that anyone who has read you over at 24's or here can see.
As I said earlier I agree with the Kid's assessment of you in this post.
You are the one who is intent on a fight, not me.
And yes, as I said before, I "enjoyed" the Kid's translation of Al-Wardi. It expanded my knowledge of an area of the world and a people that I was not familiar enough with. I can only assume that since the Kid took the time to translate his work that he also "enjoyed" reading it.
Gotta through in the everything is America's fault chaser.
I am not going to take the time to copy and paste
You are the one who is intent on a fight, not me.
lol
I smell a rat, er, spam.
This guy's been posting "his" little poem all over Iraqi blogs. In desperate need of readers, it seems.
Hi Kid,
I come to read your blog sometimes because I think that you are an honest and real person.
And since you are a person your feelings are not always going to be what people want to hear.
But you're the one who is living it and dealing with it on a level that is far different from a lot of people here.
I am glad that you try to say what you really feel. Even if it may sometimes seem controversial.
That's life in the real world. Its not nearly as simple and clearcut as anyone would like to believe.
You don't seem to be a reactionary or illogical person. I think you put a lot a of thought into things.
People may be offended that you seem cynical... but everyone deals with things differently... And I'm quite the cynic myself...
I enjoy reading what you write because I feel like you are someone who isn't ashamed to tell it the way they see it.
You obviously aren't trying to hurt anyone, you're just telling your story from your perspective.
Thank you.
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