Adages are so useless practically ; everyone memorizes them and loves to quote them, but they rarely succeed in the practical field, in enlightening the masses, and rather awfully, the masses, after listening intently for the short duration the adage is read upon them, return to the same corrupt ways.
Ali al-Wardi narrates this adage in his seminal book 'Mahzalat al-Aqil al-Bashari' (Travesty of Human Thinking), it is about two knights who are observing a pyramid from two opposite sides, unfortunately, each face of the pyramid is colored differently, so one of them sees the pyramid as green, and the other sees it blue, both men are indignant at having been proven wrong, and they are soon engaged in endless combat.
As you can see, it is rather lame reworking of the Six Blind Men and The Elephant, but its essence is of such significance that I would care to apply it now, with the help of two Iraqi bloggers to establish what happens when humans refuse to look at things except from their own perspective, which is of course half-right, but ultimately wrong and misleading.
On the left side of the pyramid we have Iraqi Mojo, an educated Iraqi-American, Iraqi Mojo does not hide his identification from the beginning, a Shia who fled after his family has been persecuted during the times Saddam was pursuing Dawa party members. Iraqi Mojo says he has no homicidal hatred of Sunnis, as he says when he met Sunni Arabs, the way you would speak when you explore a new species in the Amazons: "I have met Sunni Arabs and they are really nice." That's quite lovely of him, but even though Mojo occasionally talks about Muqtada al-Sadr's antics or his lack of love for Shia theocracy, they don't seem to be much of his concern, he rarely posts about them, if at all. For the curious American bystander who is curious to learn about how to get the hell out of Iraq, Iraq's problem, viewed through his blog is one long wail against the solitary horrors and evils of al-Qaeda, Wahhabiya, Saudi Arabia, the Arab Jarab (a term he often uses) and just about everything else you would expect a self-respecting Shia to hate, either intentionally or not, and all of which are, incidentally, the evil creations of the same very nice Sunni Arabs brothers.
And on the other side of the pyramid lies Twenty Four Steps To Liberty, I'm not exactly sure about his background, I've met him during the Iraqi Bloggers lone meet-up back in 2006 and he seemed like a pleasant fellow, what happened since then? beats me! While Mojo is at least a bit subtle, his point indirectly unfolded through links, 24's blog is fast approaching Layla Anwar-standards of rabid frothing as we speak. According to 24, all we need to do is unseat the evil, sectarian, IRANIAN IRANIAN IRANIAN puppet government of Maliki, supported by the stupid, evil Ayatollah Sistani (who is Shia, as you and I know), and everything will be automatically Plug and Play, maidens will dance, children will smile, music will play, and the hero would kiss the girl as the sun happily sets between the two ancient rivers, cue to credits, A FILM WRITTEN AND DIRECTED BY: Twenty Four Steps To Liberty, (subtitle: Fuck Iran)
and here, friends and neighbors, is the problem of the Iraqi people in a nutshell, both sides are holier-than-thou know-it-all who blame everything on the other evil, world-domination-type side, rightfully justifying their own bloody massacres in the extent. Neither are willing to even stop and consider if the other side has anything to say, neither are willing to seek a form of compromise for pursuing a somewhat co-dependent relationship. This is especially complicated of course with the unfortunate case of different religions (forget sects, Sunni Islam and Shia Islam are entirely different religions), and religion is the most powerful brain-washing force of all time, as both sides are especially inclined to dismiss the other's viewpoints as fabrications, either willingly or not.
So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean;
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!
We can apply this wonderful parable to everything, let us take Saddam Hussein for instance, today, apologists would say, as they are saying all over the place, that Khomeini's first objective after securing his foothold was to help establish a similar regime in Iraq itself, through the willing hands of Shiite clergy like Sadr and al-Hakim, a fact Khomeini himself had reiterated over and over again. In this context, the clash was not sectarian in essence, but that was an additional motif to the eternal battle between Secularism and Theocracy, hereby, the Dawa party and their aides were in fact the aggressors, since a clash was inevitable, Saddam attempted to preemptively strike Iran while it was in disarray, already an attractive target with its huge oil reserves, and so, from a purely Iraqi POV, and according to the Survival laws of Darwin, Saddam Hussein is a very heroic figure who tried to elevate his country's stature and power in the region.
That of course ignores a lot of important details, Saddam was a megalomaniac whose lip extended a lot more than his bite ever would, couple that with an extraordinary amount of self-importance and ego, visions of greatness (same as present-day Iran's), an inferiority complex towards Jamal Abdulnassir, and a quick-tempered sword that has not even the tiniest remorse for human beings, and you get your picture a lot bit better. Of course, Shia-Kurds wouldn't look at him this way, for them he is a cartoonish sectarian warmonger with a devout intent on decimating everything in his way.
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
72 comments:
"I have met Sunni Arabs and they are really nice."
Looks a bit like something you said about the Kurds a couple posts back:
Kid: The majority of Kurds are simple people, I have several friends in Kurdistan right now and they say the Kurds are very friendly people.
Just an observation :)
Great post, Kid. Really.
I'm only going to comment on the gullible Americans part (nice of you not to call us American idiots, thanks for that):
For the curious American bystander who is curious to learn about how to get the hell out of Iraq, Iraq's problem, viewed through his blog is one long wail against the solitary horrors and evils of al-Qaeda, Wahhabiya, Saudi Arabia, the Arab Jarab (a term he often uses) and just about everything else you would expect a self-respecting Shia to hate, either intentionally or not, and all of which are, incidentally, the evil creations of the same very nice Sunni Arabs brothers.
Kid, Americans don't have a good history with Shia Arabs. We don't have a good history with Shia, period. I first heard the word "Shiite" in 1979, when they US media was attempting to explain the madness in Iran. Shia in Lebanon murdered personal friends of mine, in 1983. I've argued at great length with Mojo about Hezbollah, and I still don't understand how any American (which Mojo is) can have a positive opinion about a terrorist group that has victimized so many Americans over the years.
You ask any American who is old enough to remember, and you can hear at great length our grievances against the Shia.
I've condemned the Shia militias myself on Iraqi blogs, more times than I could remember. And it wasn't the Sunni insurgency that convinced me that Iraq was hopeless (which I'm not as sure of as I used to be) - it was Sadr and his goons, and the "unsolvable" murder of Steven Vincent by what seem to have been Iraqi policemen, down around Basra.
On the other hand, I didn't know what a Sunni was until 2001. I seriously didn't. In the old days, terrorist groups that I later found out were Sunni used to be referred to by name, not by sect. For one reason or another, it wasn't until 2001 that the blame for those terrorist groups was put on their whole sect. That happened decades earlier with the Shia.
How very uncanny
I had just left the site of a very self rightous Brit foaming at his (and his visitors) absolute inability to see "the truth" when I remembered the "elephant"
I am coming to the conclusion that even if we are all perfectly sighted and stand far enough from the elephant we will still choose to only see the part that is familiar, and by "we" I do not just mean the Iraqis, good luck to you trying though
1- When I read about the mojo-24 split, I was reminded of the liberal-conservative farce in America.
2- So 24 steps wants us to get rid of the Iran-proxy government in Iraq. He might be interested to know that The US now has a treaty with that government,where we keep our military installed for the purpose of keeping this government in power.
3- I would be curious to know the role the US played in the decision to invade Iran that Saddam made. Just as I would like to know what our ambassador said to Saddam before the invasion of Kuwait.
4- Always copy your comment into a word document before trying to post.Blogger is having attitude problems.
chamblee54
Kid, Americans don't have a good history with Shia Arabs.
You ask any American who is old enough to remember, and you can hear at great length our grievances against the Shia.
oh really? lol
Ambassador claims shortly before invasion, Bush didn't know there were two sects of Islam
A year after his “Axis of Evil” speech before the U.S. Congress, President Bush met with three Iraqi Americans, one of whom became postwar Iraq’s first representative to the United States. The three described what they thought would be the political situation after the fall of Saddam Hussein. During their conversation with the President, Galbraith claims, it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites.
Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam--to which the President allegedly responded, “I thought the Iraqis were Muslims!”
here's a funny video
listen to all the fbi/ cia/congreess people including the director of the intelligence commitee! he has interviewed many who don't know the difference between sects.
even the person interviewed says he ask this person who was predominintly AQ. the man answered maybe predominintely shia? and he says, no maybe, they are shia!
claiming 'americans' don't have a good history w/shia, or that any american 'old enough to remember'.. expecting them to have anything to say, much less to go on at length is simply fantasy. i would wager 80% of americans had never heard of either sunni or shia before the invasion. not to burst your bubble or anything. it is unfair using the prez as an example, he has never been known for being the sharpest tack in the stack.
annie
annie, aren't you the person who lectured me about my GI Bill benefits, and continued to do so even after I told you that the GI Bill was suspended almost 10 years before I joined the military? And your basis for that was having dated a guy who was in the Army when you were in college way back in 1971 or something? You aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, yourself :)
As for your "source"for that little gem:
In his new book, The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created A War Without End, Galbraith
That's REALLY somebody I want to use as a single-source for information, isn't it? A guy who is selling a book he wrote about American incompetence? :O
Why don't you go sell your propaganda on Baghdad Treasure's blog, or 24s? We've been having some pretty honest exchanges of opinions here lately, and I for one would appreciate it if you kept your politically motivated sleaze off of this blog. There are plenty of other places for you to peddle your washed-up-hippy garbage.
Oh please you are taking the view points of a gay Iraqi student in Berkeley and a brainwashed and backwards American-Iraqi who only knows ten phrases in Arabic (one of them being Arab Jarub) and saying that this is what is wrong with Iraq? You are more stupid than both of them combined.
Sorry Craig, but I'm afraid annie's got a point there, look here
As for the last anon, who I'm almost sure know who, well, I took those two bloggers as an example of the mentality of the larger crowds they belong to, both of which hold surprisingly similar viewpoints regarding compromise and objectivity.
Well written kid. As I was going through the post I thought it would be longer because there are many aspects can be reflected on this basic idea.
A great post, Kid! Maybe I've used the term "jarab" way too much, and I apologize if I have offended you or any other good Sunni Arabs. I have lost control of my emotions at times and I regret some of the things I've said. But do you disagree that Al Qaeda and the Wahhabi wackos ignited the sectarian conflict in Iraq? Do you agree that if the backward scum from the wide wa6an el 3arabi had not converged on Iraq and mass murdered so many Iraqi innocents, targeting the Shia, the war would not have been nearly as severe as it has been? How long did it take for the Shia militias to respond by mass murdering innocent Sunni Arabs? Am I wrong to make these observations?
I try not to blame all Sunni Arabs, because I know that the majority of Sunni Arabs (like you) hate Al Qaeda and what the takfiris have done to Iraq. I HAVE met many good Sunni Arabs - just last night I met two gorgeous intelligent Iraqi women - their father is Shi3i and their mother is Sunni. I don't want to see any form (Shi3i or Sunni) of Shari3a law imposed on Iraqis. I've posted about the Shia Taliban. I've posted about the stupidity of Sadr and Shia hypocrisy. Maybe I'm biased because none of my relatives have been murdered by US troops or Shia militias - many of my relatives have been imprisoned and murdered by Saddam's regime and by Al Qaeda types since 2003. My two cousins who were murdered in 1980 for being members of Da3wa, but they were also productive members of Iraqi society - a dentist and a doctor.
I've spent a lot of time discussing the historical persecution of Shia, it's true. But from the beginning, I've also written about Sunni Arabs who were murdered by Saddam's regime.
I want the best for Iraq, Kid. I don't want to see turbaned clerics in govt, but at the same time I don't think it's right to get rid of them by murdering them along with a bunch of innocent Iraqis. I'm looking forward to the next elections, and I hope next time Iraqis will elect more capable secular leaders who can actually bring peace and prosperity to Iraq.
Salam:)
Personally, I think I'm safe from any inter-blog wars for one reason...
Yours is the only Iraqi blog I read.
Kid,
Along with the others, I enjoyed this blog entry because it was bold in tackling a tough subject, even though you mischaracterize to some extent (for the sake of polemic, I understand) both Mojo's and 24 Omar's positions.
In the comments you wrote:
I took those two bloggers as an example of the mentality of the larger crowds they belong to, both of which hold surprisingly similar viewpoints regarding compromise and objectivity.
This is a good way to view the Iraqi blogosphere, as I have written before. Each Iraqi blogger represents, as you say, "larger crowds they belong to." While Riverbend, Shaggy, Omar (ITM), Chikitita, Marshmallow, Hammorabi, Caesar, Mojo, and Iraq Pundit speak for themselves, their views also mirror many others who have similar standpoints on the past, present, and future of Iraq.
Democracies are built on freedom of speech and multiple opinions, from which we get new ideas (whether in science, technology, the arts, or politics), vital competition between those ideas, and hard-fought concensus (on any issue). If Saddam and his sons were still in power, of course, there would be no Iraqi blogosphere. And, looking back, the lack of the free flow of ideas was just one of the many impediments to progress in Iraq.
The stability of a dictatorship often brings with it the stagnation of an entire people. One need only look at North Korea today, where no one is allowed to leave the country, just as was the case in Iraq just a few years ago. The North Koreans today are subjected to a personality cult that is very similar to the one that Saddam used to make his regime permanent.
Now on to the second part of that quotation about compromise and objectivity. There is no question that the peaceful future of Iraq will require compromises made by many Iraqis. Even in the short history of the new government, there have been compromises. One needs only to recall that after the Sunna boycotted the January, 2005, elections, the American officials forced a compromise from the Shia to allow the addition of extra Sunni parlimentiarians into the new government. There have been others along the way, too, each one another step toward responsible self-governance. The next compromise will come with the drafting and passage of the oil-sharing law.
While historians still rely upon the close reading of sources to make their interpretive reconstructions of the past, whether it be of an event from two months ago or two centuries ago, the idea that there is one version that embodies "objectivity" or that a historian can be completely "objective" is no longer accepted within historiographical circles. Historians try to be fair with their sources, of course, as they authenticate and scrutinize them. But the march of history is always animated by the colliding of multiple forces.
For some Iraqis, the fall of Baghdad was an unmitigated disaster (for Saddam, Uday, and Qusay, for starters), for others a day of liberation, and for many Iraqis an ambivalent, startling day, one on which they were glad to be finally free of a tyrant but also a day on which they were ashamed that their soldiers hadn't fought harder, bringing shame to the Iraqi people. Both Steven Vincent in "In the Red Zone" and Anthony Shadid in "Night Draws Near" comment on this deep ambivalence felt by many Iraqi people.
Each of us, as you point out, come to the subject of Iraq from a slighty different position and our interpretations of events will vary according to those differences. All of this is normal. If two views are different, it does not mean one of them is "right" and the other one "wrong." They're just different, coming from other angles and reflecting other concerns. When we look at all of them together, however, giving each one its place in the larger composition, we do get something like a flash or glimmer of reality.
*
aren't you the person who lectured me about my GI Bill benefits, and continued to do so even after I told you that the GI Bill was suspended almost 10 years before I joined the military?
no, i was the one who lectured you about college scholarships when you claimed white people couldn't get them as easily as minorities even tho both of my sisters (white) are attending college at present on state funded scholarships. although it is true, i did tell you the story of an ex of mine who was going to college on his ('91), i wasn't lecturing you on that point.
prior to the war, there was no mention, none whatsoever as far as i can remeber, of iraqis sects and this playing a part in the coming invasion. there are multiple source documents of clueless americans besides the one i provided and kid's. just google them. here is a "refresher course" for congress printed little over a year ago by the nyt.
some of the smartest Western statesmen of the last century have found themselves flummoxed by Islam. Winston Churchill — in 1921, while busy drawing razor-straight borders across a mercurial Middle East — asked an aide for a three-line note explaining the “religious character” of the Hashemite leader he planned to install in Baghdad.
“Is he a Sunni with Shaih sympathies or a Shaih with Sunni sympathies?” Mr. Churchill wrote, using an antiquated spelling. (“I always get mixed up between these two,” he added.)
it is a bit hypocritical accusing me of 'selling propaganda' when it is you trying to claim that 'any American' who is old enough to remember being able to list grievances against the Shia. you make us sound like a bunch of prejudice people. most americans know (i would imagine) that fanatical people are not the norm in any religion, that most people are peaceful beings no matter what religion they are or even if they have no religion, and this goes for islam also. if that sounds like "politically motivated sleaze" to you, so be it. claiming anything else is spreading negative information/propaganda about my countrymen. if that sounds like "politically motivated sleaze" to you, so be it. i don't like it, and i will call you on it no matter what forumn we are on, unless i am banned which so far has yet to occurred.
annie
Sorry Craig, but I'm afraid annie's got a point there, look here
Kid, that was MY point! Annie hijacked it and turned it into an excuse to ridicule Americans fro being ignorant :)
I said myself I didn't know what "Sunni" was until 2001. I did know what a Shiite was in 1979 when I was a teenager, and Annie would have too if she wasn't smoking so much marijuana back then. How could I claim to know the difference between Sunni and Shia if I could only identify one type of Muslim by name? If you had thought that all Christians were Catholic, because Catholics were all you ever heard about, would you claim that you knew the difference between a Catholic and a Protestant? (do you, by the way?)
It seems like we all forget how ignorant of each other we used to be. I recall when I first started reading some of my favorite Iraqi bloggers, how little they knew about the US and the West in general. Those bloggers have dramatically increased their understanding. And so have the Western readers. The majority of people don't read blogs... think how ignorant they must still be, if all they know is what they hear from other people and see in the media?
That's why I get so upset when people like annie seem to be deliberately presenting misinformation. She's doing it to support her own political agenda, but she does more harm than she knows.
btw, it is not my intention to insult anyone who doesn't know the difference. not only did i not know the difference i wouldn't have known either sunni or shia were sects of islam prior invasion. and i'm not alone. faulting me for holding the president, members of congress, and our intelligence community to higher standards is disingenuous. i did it as an example of what 'most americans' might know, contrary to having any understanding or comprehension of a 'history' or 'grievences' against shia arabs.
absurd.
annie
no, i was the one who lectured you about college scholarships
Exactly. And you told me a bunch of BS. And that's when you started lecturing me about my non-existent GI Bill education benefits. And kept going with that even after I told you I didn't HAVE any GI Bill benefits. And that's when you implied I was lying, because your boyfriend in the Army way back in the day had GI Bill benefits.
You're a hopeless case, annie. I don't know why you do what you do, but I wish you'd stop. It's obnoxious as hell.
Kid,
A great post. I think one of the most difficult things to do is to be balanced in our observations. For you, these two bloggers represented a polarization of views, and you presented your argument very well.
I was very happy to see Mojo respond as he did. It can be very hard to take criticism well, and his response was well done.
As Craig said, we have had some interesting discussions here of late.
As to whether or not we, Americans that is, could tell a Sunni from a Shiite, I think you are right. We would not have a clue. However, if you were to refer to an entity such as Al-Qaida or Iran, we would. Both of whom we have issues with. I think you underestimate our concern over Iran. Why do you think we want to see Iraqis reconcile? I don't think it's just to pave the way for a fast exit. And Saddam made it clear in his last interview that he found Iran to be the primary threat to Iraq. Even more so than that other country...the one whose name starts with an I and ends with an l.
But to get back to the original theme of your post...
One wonders if it isn't the most insecure of people who are the most unwilling to open their minds and listen to others viewpoints? Insecurity also seems to be a motivating factor for the rise of religious extremes.
P.S.
...he seemed like a pleasant fellow, what happened since then? beats me!
I have wondered that myself. I always thought he was one of the nicest people. Was it all an act? Or is he hanging out with some very self-important, overbearing types of people at Berkeley?
hello programmer craig!!!
you're just slinging around the stereotypes today aren't you. i have never been a pothead. known many of them but just don't care for it much myself. maybe you should stick to attacking my ideas, and if you think they are 'hijacking your point', maybe your point got a little lost . because what i heard was some claim about who most americans over a certain age could expound at great length our grievances against.....something i might attribute to nazis, certainly not shia arabs.
were you insulted i used bush as an example of an average american?
bummerella
From your article, Kid:
And as I quickly explain to my subjects, I’m not looking for theological explanations, just the basics: Who’s on what side today, and what does each want?
The author thinks that is a BASIC question? :O
I doubt you could answer that question, Kid. I know that I couldn't.
It's the theological differences that are basic.
To his credit, he asked me to explain the differences. I told him briefly about the schism that developed after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and how Iraq and Iran are majority Shiite nations while the rest of the Muslim world is mostly Sunni.
It appears he himself is not the expert he claims to be. In Labanon, Sunni Muslims are a minority. Christians and Shia both outnumber Sunni Muslims, substantially. And that's not even taking into consideration the Druze.
Note that he doesn't even get into the "what side are they on, and what do they want" part that he considered basic :D
And you told me a bunch of BS.
your reconstruction of that thread is deceptive. i challenge you to link to it, and let the reader decide who exactly is spreading propaganda about my countries policies towards education.
i think the post (as i recall) also demonstrates enough evidence of the bloggers lack of bias towards sects (as he has made an effort to do repeatedly thruout his blogging career) to bebunk the claims made in kid's post.
there is a difference between criticizing sects and criticizing political decisions based on sect. i think the accusations made in the initial post here are unfounded and i am going to spend a little effort archive diving to prove my point later when i have a little time.
frankly, i think if one is going to make some of the overreaching claims made in the post isolating specific sentences, phrases, or paragraphs might be helpful, for without one it leaves the reader flailing about to understand you meaning.
and no, claiming someone is like layla is not in itself weighty evidence.
annie
PS-I did know what "Druze" were, way back in the day, as well. Druze were bad guys :)
I've always admired Omar (24 Steps) for urging Iraqis to shoulder personal responsibility in creating a future for Iraq. On his own comments page, Omar (24 Steps) wrote:
And never forget that it is not me who blames the Americans. I never did and will never do, unless it's accurate. I always blame ourselves, the Iraqis. I always have and will always do until this mess is solved. Because blaming the strangers for what’s happening in Iraq is not going to help. After all they are strangers and will leave any minute. Or they can say “well, it’s your country and even if we did mistakes, you should fix the situation.” And they have said that a long time ago! So, we are only left with ourselves to solve it but we don’t have realy Iraqis in the position of power yet.
*
Kid says: "and religion is the most powerful brain-washing force of all time, as both sides are especially inclined to dismiss the other's viewpoints as fabrications, either willingly or not"
hell yes it is! One of the main reasons I am an athiest. religion ,(mainly organised religion) has been used and excused so much massacrering and shit on this planet. Ive had enough of it!
Unfortunately your two-sides-of-the-pyramid tale is popular all over the world. This is pretty much because there are many people all over the world...
In religion, in racism.In gender, in age, in pretty much every divide. Well I am non-discrimanatory. I say Fuck em. fuck em all!
annie,
you're just slinging around the stereotypes today aren't you. i have never been a pothead. known many of them but just don't care for it much myself.
Oh come on. Who are you trying to fool? I'm not as old as you, but I'm old enough to remember what the 1970s were like. Most of the adults under 40 or so years of age in my own family used to smoke pot, and the majority of them weren't even hippies. I bet you used to get so stoned you couldn't do much but sit in front of the TV watching "Monty Python's Flying Circus". The only difference between you and most other ex-hippies is that when the times changed, they did too. You're still back in the 1970s. Still fantasizing about "making a difference" and "we can change the world". The world did change. Get with the program.
maybe you should stick to attacking my ideas
short answer: come up with some, and I will.
longer answer: I used to try to debate issues with you, but then you started telling lies, while at the same time accusing me of being dishonest. Not a game I want to play.
I'm really NOT interested in interacting with you, annie. So I won't be replying to any more of your comments, here. That's your cue to go ahead and say whatever you want. I won't be challenging it.
I just want to thank Mojo for being considerate enough to see my point behind the criticism, or perhaps he is actually self-aware of his own shortcomings, my only point is that in order to bring ourselves to understand the problem, we must try hard to overcome our own emotional duty to be biased towards our own kin; I know from personal experience that it is exceedingly hard to do so. There are many people who accuse you of being a traitor or sellout or whatever, but I am not, and I hope we remain on good terms.
lol, i hardly need a cue from you to say whatever i want. basing any assumptions about me on hypotheticals regarding whether i smoked pot in the 70's is sophomoric, so it is wise of you to cut the crap regardless of hiding behind the excuse of not being interested in interacting w/me. for we all know if that was the case, you would never have responded repeatedly in the first place when i layed your absurd claims to rest.
we must try hard to overcome our own emotional duty to be biased towards our own kin; I know from personal experience that it is exceedingly hard to do so.
a question then..don't you think the majority of iraqis unhappy w/the government are so because they are ineffectual or worse, not because they are primarily shia?
aren't there many shia in iraq fed up w/maliki?
don't you think there is a divide between people who support politicians whose politics are seriously persuaded and influenced by religious figures vs those who don't?
also, i am not sure how you can apply this to Omar, since he has described his background and is from a mixed background and had relatives (even siblings) from mixed sects.
annie
Anonymous at 5:40 AM,
"I would like to know what our ambassador said to Saddam before the invasion of Kuwait."
Here is the answer:-
April Glaspie - US Ambassador to Iraq, 1990
The US gave Iraq Permission to invade Kuwait
Transcript of Meeting Between Iraqi President, Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie. - July 25, 1990 (Eight days before the August 2, 1990 Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait)
July 25, 1990 - Presidential Palace - Baghdad
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threat s against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?
Saddam Hussein - As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - What solutions would be acceptab le?
Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)
On August 2, 1990 four days later, Saddam's massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait. _____
Baghdad, September 2, 1990, U.S. Embassy
One month later, British journalists obtain the the above tape and transcript of the Saddam - Glaspie meeting of July 29, 1990. Astoun ded, they confront Ms. Glaspie as she leaves the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.
Journalist 1 - Are the transcripts (holding them up) correct, Madam Ambassador?(Ambassador Glaspie does not respond)
Journalist 2 - You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait ) but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the opposite - that America was not associated with Kuwait.
Journalist 1 - You encouraged this aggression - his invasi on. What were you thinking?
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait.
�
Journalist 1 - You thought he was just going to take some of it? But, how could you? Saddam told you that, if negotiations failed , he would give up his Iran (Shatt al Arab waterway) goal for the Whole of Iraq, in the shape we wish it to be. You know that includes Kuwait, which the Iraqis have always viewed as an historic part of their country!
Journalist 1 - American green-lighted the invasion. At a minimum, you admit signaling Saddam that some aggression was okay - that the U.S. would not oppose a grab of the al-Rumeilah oil field, the disputed border strip and the Gulf Islands (including Bubiyan) - the territories claimed by Iraq?
(Ambassador Glaspie says nothing as a limousine door closed behind her and the car drives off.)
Um Ayad
Um Ayad,
Can you refrain from spamming here and just join our debate?
*
Hey asshole: why dont you grow the fuck up and NEVER leave comments like this one on my blog again
Konfused Kid wrote: I want to kill your raped sister, and then eat her vagina with a bowl of flava beans. Yumyumyum.
You make Iraqi's and Muslims look bad. Good thing I know now all are total fucking pricks like you are. You seem to want respect for youre people and culture. Try giving it to others. Or better yet, you can just go fucking die
i am sorry, but isn't it customary in your culture for horrible serial deformed freaks to eat people with chili or flava beans? that's your culture, not mine :D bwahahahah.
Unfortunately, you have just uncovered our horrible secret, all Iraqis and Muslims just want to kill raped vaginas, the 9/11 thing was all about that, and, uou have just about the sense of humor of an asshole.
Konfused The Ripper.
Kid, could you please clarify your comment on Confessions' blog? Why did you do that?
Also I want to address a claim you made in your post, referring to the "horrors and evils of al-Qaeda, Wahhabiya" and saying that "all of which are, incidentally, the evil creations of the same very nice Sunni Arabs brothers." I disagree that the horrors and evils of Al Qaeda are the evil creations of the same Sunni Arab brothers that I've met and befriended. No, actually, my Sunni Arab friends hate what Al Qaeda has done. I think that a majority of Sunni Arabs hate Al Qaeda. I remember an incident I read about in Ramadi, in which Al Qaeda wanted to expel and/or murder Shia residents of the town. The Sunni Arab tribal leaders of Ramadi organized a posse to defend their Shia neighbors against the impending evils of the Wahhabi scum.
Last night at Budget car rental I met a Moroccan who, upon learning that I was born in Iraq, told me that Iraqis need to be free and said he was saddened by the suicide bombers and takfiri shitheads who've murdered so many Iraqis. He wished peace for Iraq and gave me a free day on my rental. It seems to me that most Sunni Arabs hate Al Qaeda. Maybe it's different in Amman?
isn't it customary in your culture for horrible serial deformed freaks to eat people with chili or flava beans?
hannibal lecture was a fictional character for god's sake!!!!!
seriously tho, our sexual freaks prefer chopping up little boys and storing them in the refrigerator for future epicurean pleasure.
i didn't read the exchange, without context, i would be remiss in defending anyone's humor w/confidence. but channeling hannibal does appear to be evidence of self deprecation. while i appreciate your (to me, obvious) intentions (application of 'horrible serial deformed freaks' wrt yourself), probably making a joke about one's sister's horrid experience is never the way to endure yourself to someone's favor. even in our 'sexually liberated' society.
certain cultural differences will probably never be understood, for example the idea of a woman 'boasting' of sexual exploits is rarely the norm for woman (unlike men), however premarital sex is very normal. a family seeking any kind of revenge for a members consented sexual practices is considered extremely bizarre, absurd, cruel.. really i can't imagine the rational unless it entailed pedophillia or something. and by pedophillia i don't mean teenagers, but younger.
but yes, i get the joke, everyone knows who hannibal lecture is and the self deprecating humor is, to me, a clear indication you understand the gravity of your flawed rationale. not that you ask what i thought or anything.
insulting someone's sister is probably not going to be appreciated in any culture. if i were you i would just apologize.
It's sad to see the struggle of people all over the world being discussed in rather dergatory terms. Let's have some sanctity for those who've perished as a result of our single-mindedness and inability to appreciate the difference in others.
I, too, think it's rather unfair to apply the 24/mojo divide to Iraq/the world at large.. yes, there tends to be some correlation in ways of viewing the other, but it's minimal.. and cannot be, under any circumstances, generalised. 24 only reflects his very own take on things, and so does Mojo. This is the case with ALL commentators.. and screw anyone who feels he/she has the right to speak on behalf of anyone else..
With regards to religion and its supposedly-innate nature of creating social disorder, Richard Dawkins got it wrong, and so did we, it seems. Religion isn't a vehicle for hate and violence as people make it out to be; it's our unwillingness to accept others as equals in humanity that leads us to using ANYTHING to justify our twisted dispositions.
And please don't mistake me for a mini-Muqtada or Hakeem, I'd hate to be their accomplice.. I just feel frustrated at seeing the world and its problems reduced to a simple adage.. and yes, it is useless, Kid!
Regards
Jeffrey,
"Can you refrain from spamming here and just join our debate?"
I thought I was entering the debate by answering the comment placed by Anonymous at 5:40 AM when they said they wanted to know "what our ambassador said to Saddam before the invasion of Kuwait.".... so I gave them the answer.
I would not call that spamming. Besides I thought this was Konfused Kid's blog. So If anyone asks me to "refrain" I would have thought that would have been up to him.... not you!
Um Ayad
I don't know anything about spam... personally, I'd be happy if Annie and Craig would take their little spat to some other space.
Chrysm, here is an example of spamming.
"Personally, I'd be happy if Chrysm would either say something relevant to the topic, or take her comments to some other space."
I'm going to be honest I did not see that coming. Not that it isn't an improvement over the discussions last week.
Chrysm,
I don't know anything about spam... personally, I'd be happy if Annie and Craig would take their little spat to some other space.
Well, I'll tell you about that, Chrysm. The first time I encountered annie was on Mad Canuck's blog. I'd been there a while before she showed up. He made a post about US using chemical weapons in Falluja, presenting the allegations that had been made by the BBC (which turned out to be false, of course). So far, so good, but then annie showed up and started offering her opinions - aggressively - even though she had absolutely no clue what the topic was even about. She didn't even know the allegations were about WP mortar rounds, for instance. But she sure as hell knew that the US had gassed Iraqis with weapons of mass destruction. Luckily, annie vacated Mad Canuck's blog soon afterwards. He's not a very controversial guy, really. Nowhere near hot enough for annie.
Annie didn't show up on 24 steps to Liberty until a year or so after I'd stopped reading his blog. Ask me why I gave up on his blog, if you want more spam. But anyway, the time I ran into her over there is what I've been talking about in this thread. I got to 24's blog that time from a link on a blog I still do read. Forgot which one. And instead of doing teh smart thing and just clicking "close" when I saw what blog it was, I made a comment. Because the post was about favoritism for US scholarships and other education aid. Something I have personal experience with. Figured, how contentious can that be, right? Wrong.
I'm completely serious when I say I don't want to interact with annie. If she sticks around this blog (which hopefully she won't) I'll vacate it. She has plenty of other blogs she can distribute her brand of "information" on, and I don't think the kid's blog is quite as good of an outlet for what she wants to do as some of the others are.
He made a post about US using chemical weapons in Falluja, presenting the allegations that had been made by the BBC (which turned out to be false, of course).
By the way, the BBC ended up acknowledging that story was false, but after making it headline news for several weeks and igniting an international firestorm with it, they decided to publish a 1 paragraph retraction buried so deep under other news that to this day virtually nobody is aware they washed their hands of the whole thing. There is the BBCs credibility.
S/he meant for you to shut the fuck up craig not tell your internet story no one gives a shit about.
I'll take it under advisement :D
Kid,
Blogger has just announced that you can now use Hebrew, Arabic, and Persian (right-to-left languages) on their websites.
You might want to pass this on to the gang at Iraqi Blogodrome. Maybe now the Arabic-language Iraqi blogosphere will increase (and we'll have to figure out what text-translating tools to use).
*
Okay, for the sake of a few readers I'll try to discuss the confessions vagina thing seriously for a bit.
I was trying to show to the Western world how society in the Middle East would look unfavorably on women who SWEAR in public (NOT RAPED, you can check that on my post), I was trying to say that even the most secular of families have issues with that sort of thing, and so as an example I thought it would be wise to choose myself, and all of you know the informal tone of my blog, the 'kill' bit was an innocent exaggeration. Looking back, I can see that a lot of ppl gave me some heat for it, but none were them as unyielding and offensive as that Malamute girl there, he simply COULDN'T accept the fact that I might be trying to illustrate something general about society in good faith, which shows just suspicious he thinks of Iraqis and Muslims, a fact proven by this recent comment here:
You make Iraqi's and Muslims look bad. Good thing I know now all are total fucking pricks like you are.
I mean honestly I myself would never think of killing, but I meant that it would be unacceptable even for a guy like myself, that's all. Malamute just took this thing and started attacking me, first on the Sabrin al-Janabi post, and then when I told 24Steps that I wrote about him, this is how he responded:
Your apinion is not special Kid.
Are there any rape victims u should be killing? As you said on your blog you will kill your sister if she is reaped?
That stupid mentality is what is wrong with Iraq. Go to hell Kid.
So he simply tries to ignore everything that I am, that I did and say only because I chose some crude expressions at one point. What can I do to a person like this? I decided not to take him seriously. Hence the 'insane' comment on my blog.
The racist here is not me, but him/her, for failing to understand that Arabs and Muslims do make colorful and fucked-up metaphors like him sometimes.
So for all of you readers, I apologize, here it comes:
Sorry.
Now I can haz rape vagina?
*hugs Kid*
It's all right. Anyone who has read you for awhile knows that underneath the strange french fry eating habits and blunt language is a decent person. :)
Craig,
Regarding your Annie problem, I think many of us have had the same issues with her. Unfortunately there are others like that on both sides of the divide. I have not had good experiences with her or Confessions(Kid's nemesis) either. And before anyone accuses me of being off topic. I think this is very relevant to the Kid's post. I am not saying this to hurt anyone's feelings, but to try to point out that some people simply refuse to see that their thinking may need to be expanded a little.
Now I can haz rape vagina?
no but you can has cheeseburgr!!
but I am vegiturirunz
Boy child... stay the fuck off my blog. your rantings on my blog are neither welcome nor interesting nor anything I care to read. I didnt publish your filth because it was exactly that - filth. I havent read your blog in over 6 months and would prefer never coming here as you dont interest me in the slightest. As for your so called apology you should be a fiction writer, cos youre not dealing with reality well. I dont give a rats ass if Iraqi's make up colourful expressions or not. Some things you just dont say to a stranger. But I think you are too immature to understand that.
I come from a mixed race family. Racism is something I have ZERO tolerance for. But then why bother to explain that you an idiot like you. Youre simply not worth the time. You claim I dont understand your culture. You make no effort to understand mine. Cos if you made such a comment to my face Id shit stomp the living hell out of you till you got it in your head such things are not acceptable to say.
For someone who claims not to be into rape and killing women you sure mention it a lot. Get your head checked sparky there is something truly fucked up in there.
In short stay the fuck off my blog. I have no interest in you or your childish bullshit. Oh, and move out of mommy and daddys basement. At your age you should be able to stand on your own two feet, not leach off your parents like a child.
I didnt publish your comment but have the orig email notice if anyone cares to see it leave your email on my blog and Ill forward it to you.
Kid,
Both BT and Omar (24 Steps) suffer from chronic humor-deficiency. I've complained about this to Omar (24) many times. One of the reasons I enjoy your blog is that you can proceed either with analysis or sarcasm (or sometimes with a melding of the two), depending on your mood or the subject matter. These are BLOGS, not issues of "Foreign Affairs," right? Sometimes a little well-placed dynamite is required (says the Psycho Sicko American) to blast open new territory for debate.
Anyway, I've only been able to get a chuckle out of Omar (24) once or twice in the past few years. I think he wrote one time, "Okay, that was funny." Heh heh. It took me two years to get that (and I had written some killer funny shit, too)!
Omar (24) is just one of those deadly boring serious guys. And he thinks for some reason that he -- and only he -- has the market on rationality. And this is a guy who contradicts himself several times every week. We at IBC have had a hard time keeping up with his numerous permutations and 180s.
*
Kid,
I think I remember this "Malamute" from years ago on the blogs. I don't know if it's a he or a she but I recall questioning the sanity of someone who thinks that they're a dog. And then I just checked out Mut's weblog and find photos of cats! What the hell kind of dog is a catblogger?!
I distinctly recall some conversations with this dog a few years ago and concluding that this particular sentient being was, to be blunt, nuts. I mean, just look at that blog and the blogger profile. Under Movie Favorites, our Mut types out with its paw:
Im furry friendly and fun. Give me bones to chew and Ill be your best friend. Take me for walks and Ill love you even more.
I'm not making this up. Check out its Blogger profile.
Fruit of the LOON.
COO-COO for Cocoa-Puffs.
You know what I mean?
*
Kid,
Here is Mut's first blog entry:
We got to chase a rabbit today. Our human didn't even stop us like he normally does. Bailey flushed it out and Shadow and Mocha took up the chase, then I went after it too but it managed to escape. It was exciting for us tho. Dog things I dont expect you humans to understand. See we're not just lawn orniments. We're real and we have hopes and dreams and our own. Idea's on what we want in our lives. You humans think you own us, you dont. Dreams are funny things. Sometimes they seem to die or go away. But they dont fade completely from us. Its what makes us dogs. And new dreams are born all the time. Each has a dog to visit before it drifts away in the waking hours. Do humans dream ? If you read this our there tell me your dream. Mine are about rabbits and snow and swimming in the ocean. Important stuff when youre a dog.
So my packmates are Kela Shadow Bailey Mocha and Chloe they'll be writing here from time to time. We have a human who lives with us, we call him human mostly, but sometimes we call him "that Hind-Legger" when we're pissed with him. But he feeds us crunchies and even makes a gravy for our supper. So we keep him around. Well, I should be off. I have to be up early, 4 am in fact. I have to wake my human and tell him its dawn. I love to start the day with a howl and a pounce, dont you ?
Muy lo-co, senor.
*
Cos if you made such a comment to my face Id shit stomp the living hell out of you till you got it in your head such things are not acceptable to say.
maybe our cultures aren't so far apart!
well, i for one appreciate the apology and explanation (i was the anon who requested it) even tho i do not understand the breadth of the offense, i believe it offended.
humor in cultures are one of those things that aren't so easy to learn. i find that some people find it much easier to accept humor from those who have the same ideological background. that is why a good comedian , like say stewart or colbert, attract cross section audiences.
Omar (24) is just one of those deadly boring serious guys.
oh please, i know for a fact this isn't true. beauty is not the only thing in the eyes of the beholder.
And before anyone accuses me of being off topic. I think this is very relevant to the Kid's post.
me too. i actually included this in a response last night but nixed the post as i chose not to not respond to more of the reality reconstruction sans supporting links since somebody didn't take up my challenge of prooving their claims.
the graphic in the post, the elephant story i had never heard.
but when you think about it, everyone want the same outcome, presumably peace. we have different visions of who's at fault or how much blame should be laid at whose feet. thereby one may go about demonizing one's adversaries attributing them w/the characteristic of our 'enemy'.
there is a saying, we become what we resist. the way i consider this is that our judgements and fears and hatreds consume us. and this is very much where humor does play a significant part. because one persons humor may make no sense to another because what is funny to us has to do w/the way we assimilate our emotional investment.
for instance, if one were at a restaurant and the piped music was barry mantelo considered by some to be mildly annoying. your friend knew you couldn't stand barry mantelo but the other people didn't know this. song after song it just keeps comin up. finally you say (hands raised to the ceiling)'f'ing mantelo again!' your friend might laugh, another might not have even noticed the music, and then another, being from the middle east, your words could have sounded like fingernails on a blackboard because you are a woman, society in the Middle East would look unfavorably on women who SWEAR in public.
i can, in my mind make a funny joke, about someone not being the smartest tack in the stack and this is enough to unleash a torrent of negativity. whereas if someone said this about obama, whom i like, i don't think it would really bother me. but if they said it about my son, i would lash out.
so within our own cultures we have these barriers..
we must try hard to overcome our own emotional duty to be biased towards our own kin(d).
i find it interesting you use the term 'emotional duty'. this is very unique phrasing. it should be a 'duty' to overcome our emotions and try not to be biased. i like the expression emotional duty because it describes the feeling. we are , or can be slaves to our emotions. but in fact this is not our di=uty, our duty is to separate our emotions from our judgments. they shouldn't 'own' us. if they do, we do become what we resist.
annie
Jeffrey, I swear to God I laughed so hard after reading your comments, I was unsure what did that guy mean by Malamute, I mean i knew it was a breed of a dog but I thought he referred to some sort of cult or something! Having just read about it, I am unsure whether to laugh or actually cry.
His recent posts talk about his human father passing away, that is curious indeed, how can a dog be begotten by a man.
The answer, of course, is unprintable.
Kid,
Oh man, I was laughing and shaking my head too. Very bizarre. I'm really wondering if this Mut actually has RABIES.
I can just see Mut leaping over a fence, froth dripping down from its jaw, and clamping down on your leg. When the dog pound shows up they'll see a human with their teeth attached to your leg and you would just have to say, "Hey, just read the BLOG!"
Adventures of a MalaMUT. MalaMUT did say he or she were "mixed race," right?
Heh heh heh.
*
Kid,
I guess Mut couldn't get too pissed off if you called his sister a bitch....
-Chrys
Lynnette, 6:30 PM:
"Anyone who has read you for awhile knows that underneath the strange french fry eating habits..."
Freedom fries Lynnette, FREEDOM fries. Where's your patriotism!?!?
lol!
Shhhh, Lee, I thought no one would notice. :)
What happened to Mut?
Maybe Mut choked on a bone.
Woof woof!
*
crap. wat got u so frustrated about woman? ur arab culture...? we the man of irak make such horrible remarks about woman and consider it humorist??
i know arab cultures went through a severe and often intentional setback through colonialism, i don't see how we would be helped with you explicitly exposing its results on your sexuality.
i rather had you had a healthy sexuality and if at all possible so mature as to use condoms instead of using woman as reproduction factorys.
So write something about condoms next, ok? and be a good kid, or is that taboo bigger then the humiliation of woman?
I think it is very disappointing, finally kid gets over the religious phenomenon and all i hear is you are taking a kid the ripper attitude.
well lol. a bit funny it is.
on the post: i dont think it rili matters, i look forward to read the next article you wrote, even if your remarks about woman are of the bill. Likewise you can read their blogs, they will inform you what a typical(shia kurd whatever)
thinks. More reason then that will always be a voice in the desert.
(I wasnt posting on raed.. becus my postings are judged to dangerous..)
It is something a dissident better learns early..
not many will easily understand what is going on.. otherways there would be no dissidents after all.
Kid, I have been meaning to tell you something for the last few days. As a preface I should acknowledge that I have been a regular reader of yours since you started blogging. I really like you, your inquiry for the truth, your spunk, your straightforwardness (that sometimes gets you into trouble ;-) ), your down to earth style. You are a brave son of Iraq who genuinely seeks the betterment of the ancient lands of the two rivers (as Iraq was famous for in south asia 4,000 years ago.)
I have always seen you and Mojo to be similar in outlook, thinking style, philosophy and motivation. I thought that a personal testimonial might help you better appreciate how much like you Mojo really is.
I know Mojo very well. I have met with him many times. In our discussions, Mojo frequently expresses great sadness and disappointment in the SIIC, Muqtada, and Dawa. Mojo and his many relatives still in Iraq frequently refer to Amar Hakim (Abdul Aziz al Hakim’s son and heir) as the new Uday. There is deep disappointment in Mojo’s family about the UIA and the current GoI government.
Mojo has expressed his sorrow that the GoI is not reaching out more to the Awakenings, especially in Al Anbar. As Mojo might put it, the Iraqi government has to step up. Mojo admires the awakenings. Admires is to weak a word. He likes many of the sunni arab tribal leaders in the awakenings. And he is genuinely delighted by any good news from Ramadi, Mosul and other mostly Sunni areas. When I tell him about business development and economic improvement in Ramadi, and other mostly sunni arab areas, his eyes light up with joy. Mojo loves all Iraqis, including Sunni Arabs. He always roots for them. (I so wish that John, Italian, Dahr Jamail, Riverbend, and Layla felt that way. I think Um Ayad feels that way. I sense she genuinely loves and cares about Iraqis. Indigo, maybe. Bruno, I am not sure.)
By contrast, Mojo regards many of the current GoI officials as sectarian and wishes that Iraqis had elected more competent and secular leaders. Mojo, unlike me (who is quite religious in orientation), is eminently secular in his beliefs, orientation and practices. In fact, I tell him stories about the twelver Shia Imams and Shiism (I love to read about the Shia faith, and all religions really.)
Mojo is no apologist for Khamenei. He strongly opposes the Khamenei theology in Quom.
Mojo is not in any way bigoted. He weeps at the many atrocities of the Sadrists and Badrs. Read his blog carefully, and you will see this reflected in his comments.
I was deeply saddened by your description of Mojo, because I like both of you so much. I felt that a testimonial from someone who knows Mojo well might help you understand how alike you and Mojo are. You are both brave and patriotic secular sons of Iraq.
Damn, Anand! That was quite a praise. Perhaps you found the uniting figure Iraq needs to replace Maliki right there? Could this Mojo be the man? Is the answer right in front of us here on the blogs?
I was thinking more along the lines of Konfused kid, or Ali from 24 steps.
But now that you mention it, Mojo would be pretty good too.
I love the ITM brothers. They are good human beings.
Maybe Zeyad would be a good PM. If he was given the responsibility to lead, and the buck stopped with him, he might step up.
Maybe Zeyad would be a good PM. If he was given the responsibility to lead, and the buck stopped with him, he might step up.
George Bush will be available next January.
Dick Cheney as well.
If a year is too long to wait, Iraqis could have Jimmy Carter right now.
I think Dick Cheney would be a great Prime Minister of Iraq. He knows a lot about oil. Also, he shot a guy once. In the face.
Why doesn't someone insult my dad or brother for once?
"FUCK YOUR FATHER, YOUR BROTHER'S EASY!"
I think Dick Cheney would be a great Prime Minister of Iraq. He knows a lot about oil. Also, he shot a guy once. In the face.
ahahahaaa!
Thanks Anand! If I had to nominate a leader from the Iraqi bloggers, my first choice would be Omar of Iraq The Model.
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