Wednesday, February 21, 2007

Sabreen al-Janabi

I'm sure you've all heard about the 20-year-old Sabreen al-Janabi, a Sunni woman who said that had been raped by US-supported Iraqi soldiers during the ongoing Operation Law & Order, suprisingly, there hasn't been much activity regarding the topic on the Iraqi blogosphere, with the exception of the predictable post by Truth About Iraqis, and a rare appearance by superstar Riverbend.

Before I add my own opinion regarding the topic, here is a special treat, I have spent the better part of yesterday adding subtitles to the video and I have put it now live on YouTube here:


There has been much debate regarding those claims, it eventually boiled down to this headline: "Rape or Not, Depends on whether you're Sunni or Shiite", nobody bothers to examine the evidence, as everyone immediately reads every news item in his own particular agenda, the very dangerous essence of civil war.

First let us examine the evidence supporting the claim:

It is not unlikely for Iraqi soldiers to commit such acts, It is my own personal belief that Iraqi soldiers are usually worse than US soldiers, and it would be a typical and quite in-character act if they broke into a house and found a woman alone to rape her. The woman's story was detailed and it had emotion in it, when I first saw her, I found her convincing.

Nothing much to add above that.


But as I sat down to translate it, which makes me in direct contact with every sentence and every nuance, all the fishiness came in the way.

First, like dear Riverbend here would say, it is highly unusual for an Iraqi woman to appear on television and to tell a story of her own rape. It is an emotional hellride and it brings shame to the entire family and tribe, usually when a woman is raped, she is silent, ostracized and may be even killed by her own family to spare her of the shame, the matter is settled through tribal feuds and war. Riverbend goes on to expostulate that this exemplifies Sabreen's own personal bravery. But I beg to differ, first, the girl's accent is very countryside, and those people usually stick to the traditions I mentioned above, they don't think in such a way of exposing the truth live in front of millions of viewers, all they care about is to silence the matter. Sometimes they would hold public mourning ceremonies, as if she was actually dead. Had the girl been educated or civil maybe her and her family would have felt compelled to talk about it. But Sabreen not only told her story pubicly and on al-Jazeera, of all stations, she actually had the nerve to recount very graphic details of her rape without the expected emotionality - no self-respecting tradition-abiding parent-observing girl would talk about her rape in the very graphic and vulgar way that she did, she literally said 'he grabbed my tit' without any difficulty, and then she said what can be loosely translated as something the feel of 'I'm not one of them bitches'. No woman would talk like this in front of her parents, let alone the world. I myself woud probably kill my sister if she talked like this, well not kill, but you get the emotion. Third, the timing of the rape seemed very controversial, right in the middle of the security plan, the claim could be bolstered if one knows that Sabreen al-Janabi's father have links with al-Qaeda, check out this news item.

I thought that al-Maliki's reaction was somewhat fishy as well, had it been outright denial it would've reminded me of the way Baqir Solagh denied the Badr Corps out-in-the-open crimes and is something the diplomacy of our Iraqi government is made of, had the rape actually occured, why would al-Maliki deny it and bring to himself a whole extra mess of troubles, and on top of that reward the rapists? The fact is that he didn't deny it at first, the initial statement seemed intent on finding those responsible and having maximum penalites inflicted upon them, al-Maliki was trying to send the message that he knows such things could happen and that his soldiers aren't the stuff of angels, something Riverbend/TAI neglected to mention.

Rape is common, and what it occurs, the family distance itself from the woman, especially if they are a traditional family, it is very rare that you would hear of a story of a woman raped, and when it does get out in the open, the family is not very intent on talking about it everywhere, for instance, here is a 22-year-old Christian woman, Luana, whose story is almost identical to Sabreen, she is Christian, she doesn't hold necessary those severe traditions regarding rape, and yet even she wasn't so compelled to talk about it. All I heard of her was a small story on IraqiSlogger. The fact that she was Christian might also explain why nobody cared about her.

No, Sabreen's story is very fishy, her actions un-Iraqi, and her story is clearly orchestrated for maximum effect, check out the part where she says: 'I asked them why are chasing women? and he replies: This is mut3a', in my subtitles, I overlooked this and simply translated mut3a literally 'leisure', but the word has other connotations: Mut'a marriage is a controversial Shiite-only practice where a man and a woman have an Islamically-correct marrige that only lasts for hours or days, Sunnis regard this similar to people who want to commit adultery and finding a loophole in their Islam contract, anti-Shiite slanders are for example: The Son of Mut3a. Her metnion of the word reminded me of the huge clearly false allegations over a fake Muqtada al-Sadr statement about a group of women who want to have group mut3a with Mahdi Army fighters in Shiite mosques so that they be 'zealous for killing Sunnis'.

Give me a break!
and as usual the Arab nation did the usual uproar, Adnan al-Dulaymi trembled like a teapot, Mish'aan al-Juboori re-broadcast the clip 25/7, and the media war rages on and on.

105 comments:

hala_s said...

Wallah ya kid your wisdom keeps on amusing me.

I agree with you 100%.

A&Eiraqi said...

Well done Kid
I agree with the way you published it.

I've e-mailed Riverbend about the matter, the struggle is our people want something just to divide them , all the reactions are unacceptable .

Well, I disagree with you that women genrally don't mention swearing words infront of parents because it depends on cultue and I've seen before many who do so.

I agree that Sabrin was much strong than she shoud be , as she was raped four times by solders , it should be harder for her to mention it .
It's not so difficult to find proofs if we want, it's easy to examine her, she mentioned a heavy beat on her thigh and that should leave an eccymosis 100%.

Secondly , if she resisted them , that might leave many brusis and even scars on her body , it's the quite common thing,

She mentioned that they raped her one after the other , it's not easy to control a women while she is being raped, and she didn't mention that one of them was controling her and while the other was raping .

It's quite expected that there are people who want to stop the security plan of Al-Malki and it's possible to create such story , yat, The reaction of Al-Malki was a bunch of foolishness,

Firstly , he shouldn't close the case so soon, those who tried to create such hard story , are not idiots to send woman who didn't have sex, so absolutely there was signs of previous sex practice in her vagina and it should be of the hard one.

Even if she lies, he should send all the case to a court , and then the court would decide who is guilty.

If the Solders were innocents , why did he rewarded them , they didn't do anything.

Let's assume that she is a prstitute, that doesn't give the right for anyone to rape her, so they should go on in the investigations till, it clears up.

Today Al-Malki send off Al-Samarai
That means he insists on his position and doesn't want to be argued .

As you've said Sunnis belived her and Shiites say it's a conspirancy , and we have to wait for fruther killing.

Nice and wise from you

Regards

A&Eiraqi said...

I also think that some of her words were said with intention like mu3a, American group came , we kill what we don't like .

But, she mentions her story like, they thought she is a prstitute, I'm not defending the military forces but, what we haven't heard yet, why did they go to that house in particular?
other thing, is she only 20?
Such age is too young for such personality or behavoiur!!

Still it's quite confusing

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Anonymous said...

Soy piel justa alegre que elegiste hablar de esta materia, así que de mucha gente lejos del del mundo real

Iraqi Mojo said...

It's hard to say she was lying after watching that video. Maliki's such a dope for 'rewarding' the idiots.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Kid, you weren't serious when you said 'I myself woud probably kill my sister if she talked like this.'

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm... Being a victim of rape myself, and being both Arab and Muslim, I think it's not for you to say what the girl should feel or how she should act... I was very unpredictible after my bad experience. But I'll tell you this, I would have been more vocal about it had I had the chance!! Yes, it is draining and all, but at least you get a sense of release... As for your comment as far as killing your own sister, that's straight nonsense... I mean, my brother would have killed the guy had I been able to identify him!! And in no way would he ever look down at me. In fact, I am highly regarded for having been able to go past it. Even my ex-fiance was okay with it and he is Muslim and Arab too. Now, had it been done by a US enticed unhuman bastard, or even more than one, I would have probably blown myself and avenged myself. Honor or not, it does not rest in her hands if she has been forced.
You know nothing of rape!!!
I admired some of your other posts, but no kuddos for this one!!

Omar said...

Read this Kid:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17247398/site/newsweek/

wallah an3al abu wilid zawaj il mut3a yabu iran yabu il sistani, allah yakhodhum sa3a 8abil, amen.

This is my favourite monument, you son of a whore! I pray that you (maliki gawwad) yourself be raped one day, but only after your wife and daughters are raped and burned in front of you, ya ibn il ga7ba ya 9a8i6 ya 3arziz. Don't worry, the rapists will be generously rewarded.

What's next? Nasb il shaheed? allah yakhuthkum bsa3a soda inshallah.

ya 3aini 3ala baghdad, ya 3aini 3ala baghdad. ma agdar agul gair allahu akbar, allahu akbar ya bashar!

I don't want to apologize for my language; this is my city and this is how I feel, deep hatred and anger. And I don't give a fuck about Saddam's hand, I just want my city.

Zeyad said...

Dude, dais is used extensively by rural Iraqis and it is not considered a swear or a taboo word, as in middle and higher class Baghdadi circles. Please research before you make such a ridiculous claim.

Also, what Iraqi woman would make up a story of being raped, thus bringing shame not just on herself and her family, but her whole tribe - the Janabat? Just to discredit the security operation? Get real. These things are taken very seriously and she could be very well killed for admitting to being raped. Maliki's actions were despicable as has been the case with everything he has done since he took office, and of course the political posturing of both sides is disgusting.

Also, the NY Times had an interview with the nurse who examined her yesterday and she indeed confirmed that Sabrin had bruises and signs of forcible sexual assault, not to mention that Sabrin had said that she could identify one of the men by a scar on his genitals.

Zeyad said...

Omar, FYI, they are also planning to take down Nasb il Shaheed and al Jundi il Majhool as well. Maybe they can put statues of Khomeini or Khamenei instead. And they have the gall to object when someone says they are slaves of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Omar said...

wallah ya Zeyad, ra7 amoot min il 8ahar.

Jeffrey said...

And Zeyad, who cares about the Christian woman who was raped, right? She probably was asking for it.

*

Konfused Kid said...

Hey all...

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Yes she did suffer something perhaps, but I am somewhat sure it isn't rape.

1. @anon
Of course I cannot really put myself in her place, but from her overall statement, the timing, the language and several other fishy stuff - i can't really say she was raped. As for killing my sister, I was actually referring to the the girl's low-brow vulgar language, she might be countryside, but nobody talks like this in front of anybody i know, I wouldn't kill my own sister if she was raped and I would gladly marry a raped woman.

2. Omar, your frustration is understandable, but the problem is that both sides are equally shitty, it leads us nowhere.

3. Look at Ahmed Abdilghafoor al-Samarra'ie's recent comments on al-ArabiyaTV, he claims that she wasn't raped but was actually 'descerated'. What does that tell you?

2. @Zeyad, Omar al-Juboori, Tariq al-Hashimi's aide said that her actual name is (something) al-Jumayli, what does that tell you? they even faked her tribe name, wouldn't that create some sort of rift with the Janabat???

All in all, the whole issue is very messy and confusing, but I lean toward disbelieving her and it also might be worth noting that al-Maliki side (actually, the Shiite-led governmnet), behaved rather hastily and sloppily, as always.

Konfused Kid said...

Oh and Zeyad, the woman didn't say 'dais', she said 'sadr', but I was not referring to this, I was referring to the way she said the officer admired my 'sadr' and said that you are still young etc, she didn't seem to have a problem with saying such stuff.

Mo Abdul said...

Jeffrey, imagine your whore of a mother or sister got raped in NY and then Mayor Bloomberg dismisses the story in a couple of hours and rewards the officers. I'm sure you'd feel the same, sicko.

Why is the U.S. still covering up for their Iranian friend Maliki? They've examined the woman, according to the NYTimes, but have not released the results. Just as in the Zarga massacre, more and more lies and cover-ups by Iran's allies in Iraq and their U.S. sponsors.

This will all come back to haunt you.

Jeffrey said...

Hey, this could be fun. Let's add some bawdy jokes to KK's Kollection.

Mo Abdul, what the difference between YOUR SISTER and a SOW?

A sow wears a bra with more than two cups.

Heh heh heh.

Gotta love these positive international exchanges.

*

Q80 Pandora said...

'Also, the NY Times had an interview with the nurse who examined her yesterday and she indeed confirmed that Sabrin had bruises and signs of forcible sexual assault, not to mention that Sabrin had said that she could identify one of the men by a scar on his genitals.'

Adri Kwaitya and I should butt out but I couldn't help but point out that it needs a forensics doctor to verify whether or not the woman was raped not a nurse.

And she got a pretty good look at his genitals didn't she? Either it's a very big scar or she was looking longer than she should. Any other woman would be kicking, scratching and punching and trying to look the other way.

Madri ist'3faralla, like you said Zeyad what woman would risk her reputation and that of her tribe by making such a claim?

ok now I really will butt out...

Anonymous said...

Suspected rape victim talks rather unemotionally about Rape.
Idiot Savant decides on the fact that she is coarse and vulgar and rather unemotional, she musn't have been raped.
Educated female reader, feels sorrow for his sister and hopes that said idiot savant will grow up soon.

Konfused Kid said...

We're nm

Konfused Kid said...

*cough*...sorry, i did not base my argument on vulgarity. this is a supplementary thing. and I did not say that one cannot be 100% certain. You have to see that 1. rape tends to agitate people, such as you are now 2. the timing and the wording of her statement seemed tailored for maximum effect, it all makes for a superb propaganda war effort. hence, i don't buy it - that is not to say the other side is sinless. They might have harassed her in some way or another, and indeed Maliki's responses leave something to be desired.

Konfused Kid said...

oh and sorry about not welcoming you eariler, q80 and kuwaiti anon. if you know Exzombie then i'm friends with him.

Iraqi Mojo said...

Maliki's an idiot. He did not have to 'reward' them.

Sohayalla said...

oh gosh, kiddo! Here's me thinking that most professionals agree that there is no single response to rape; every individual deals with his or her intensely traumatic emotions differently. Therefore victims can feel disassociation as well as feelings of extreme rage and blame all in the one day.

Face it whatever the truth of the issue, your generalities on rape and your misogyny are what are troubling.

Again my sympathies to your sister.

Jeffrey said...

Let's tell some more jokes.

Jesus, Mohammed, and Saddam Hussein were sitting in a restaurant when someone suddenly loudly farted. Jesus said, "It parted not my cheeks." Mohammed grinned but shook his head. Saddam Hussein took the toothpick from his mouth and said, "I can still smell Uday's skin."

*

Konfused Kid said...

Sohaylla,
I am not generalising raped women behavior. I am saying that the overall resultant of the time, circumstances, behavior, victim wordings sound fishy to me. The girl does not act out of her own free behavior, she naturally must adhere to Iraqi customs, which she queerly did not. I am discussing this particular case, not just any case.

Mojo, yes, he didn't have to reward them - that was one idiotic move.

Anonymous said...

the messages on this blog by the men here are absolutely disgusting. you should all be ashamed of yourselves, not a single damn one of you have the right to criticize how a woman reacts to being gang raped and what you would have done differently. how dare you sit here and accuse of her being sectarian for some of the things she said after she was gang raped. tfoo aliek to all of you monsters.

Anonymous said...

Nobody will ever know, the truth was lost because the government mismanaged the investigation as usual ... but lets agree we can disagree, not insult each other.

Q80 Pandora said...

KK you welcomed me before I just had another name :)

Girls you're acting as if any woman who claims rape should be believed 100% and there should be no doubt about it. I've seen cases where women claim rape just to get a guy in trouble. Cruel women do exist you know.

Who knows maybe she really did get raped...If she did I think her name should go down in the Guiness Book of World Records as being the first Arab Muslim female to give away her name, her tribes name, and talk about how her rapist admired her boobs on national telly.

Yeah.

sentientdevice said...

As a female its terribly difficult to watch the video and read the subtitles... it was nice of you to do that tho.

Rape isn't something that is usually easy to talk about for any woman for various reasons even in societies where rape is not something you can be killed for being a victim of!!

Someone somewhere mentioned that she did not appear to be upset enough by all of this, but sometimes girls (and guys) attempt to appear emotionally stronger than they actually are... most people I know and respect are guilty of this at some point or another... I know for sure one of the last things I ever want is for someone to see me cry. So I will try my hardest to hold my tears about personal things no matter what.

She seemed upset enough to me.

Do people need to see someone completely broken down and humiliated to understand that something is wrong with them and that they have been hurt??

Even if she devolved into a sobbing heap of human flesh it STILL may have been no great indicator anyways, perhaps she had the potential to be an incredible actress... I must concede that is always the possibility no matter how she appears...

There have been some news reports released claiming that there were signs she had prepared dinners for ten or more people on some occasions so that she must have been hosting the insurgency... one should ask themselves if there were other reasons she could have been doing this... Did she have a family? Are families able to gather under the current conditions... I don't know these answers personally... Is this a possibility?

They say also that clothes were found in her house that belonged to a man who was killed and found nearby. There must have been evidence on the clothes to indicate they belonged to the body found... at least I have to assume there was. It would be nice to be told at least a tiny bit about how the clothes were determined to belong to that man... otherwise I have to wonder if the clothes belonged to someone else...

Is it not even possible that the clothes could have been planted or simply just have been said to have been found there..? For groups of people who are not above raping women it is not unthinkable that they would also fabricate evidence to cover their tails.

If this is such a Sunni/Shiite issue then it would seem almost pertinent to know if the man who the clothes are said to belong to was a Sunni or a Shiite as well... Maybe everyone else knows the answer to this question, but I am in the dark on this one...

And now I find this report where it appears "Police also found a passage leading to a neighboring house with a small infirmary and large amounts of medicine..."

Another report says that "A statement from al-Maliki's office that accompanied the medical report on Wednesday said police had found the woman alone in a house preparing a large meal and later discovered a secret passageway to a house next door where police earlier had found the body of a kidnapping victim."

I'm sorry... but why wasn't this secret passage discovered when the body was found???


Also is seems to be widely reported that the medical examination did not indicate that she was raped however the following is now being reported as well...

--"The single sheet, apparently part of a multi-page report, said that there were "no vaginal lacerations or obvious injury." An accompanying statement asserted that the medical report "confirmed" there had been no rape, but several rape experts in the United States said the report did no such thing.

The report didn't disprove the woman's allegations, the experts said, and it indicated that the woman suffered extensive injuries, including at least eight bruises on the front of her thighs consistent with a sexual assault.

"Generally it occurs when the suspect is holding the victim's legs open and the victim is attempting to close her legs," said Tara Henry, a former head of the sexual assault unit at Alaska Regional Hospital in Anchorage, who reviewed the report at the request of McClatchy Newspapers.--"


also the following

"-- Most rape victims, especially those who already are sexually active, don't suffer vaginal injuries during an assault, said Dr. Dan Sheridan, the coordinator of the forensic nursing program at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

Other experts said the report indicates that medical personnel took numerous X-rays and CT scans, perhaps bolstering Sunni claims that the woman had been beaten.

"They did a CT scan of the head, the pelvis, and the neck. These tests would not have shown if someone was sexually assaulted, so there had to have been some kind of other trauma that they found," said Dr. Karen Simmons, medical director of the Rape Treatment Center in Miami, Fla.

"It shows that she was brought into a trauma unit in bad shape," said Joshua Weintraub, an attorney who once ran the sexual crimes office of the Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office. --"

This one was a very interesting article-- http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/16751622.htm

In addition to the other things it claims "The woman said the police came to her home while her husband was away and accused her of cooking for Sunni fighters. They took her to their headquarters, where one of the officers put his hand over her mouth so she couldn't be heard and attacked her. Three of the officers raped her, she said.

A neighbor who saw her being led away alerted U.S. troops, who came to the police station and rescued her, she said."

Apparently something caused this neighbor to feel as though they needed to call a "less biased" authority to check in on the matter.




Is it not also possible that the allegations against her may all be factual... but she still was truly raped?? I do not see why not. Perhaps these men did not take kindly to the things she has been accused of being associated with and therefore saw her as less than human.




It is sad to see this woman's alleged pain dismissed so easily.

We all know what goes in the world. We all know how cruel people can be.

We do also know that people lie... and while it is still a possiblity that this woman has been lying... it is also cruel to draw such conclusions untill more is known and all the proper questions have been asked.

The possibility that this woman is telling this truth about her treatment by these men is a very important issue as far as quality of life for women goes...

Her behavior may have seemed abnormal for someone of her culure... however nothing will ever change as long as people remain the same.

Perhaps this woman is no longer average.

Perhaps now she is brave... and driven to say these things even knowing what the reprecussions may be.

She may even feel like she doesn't truly have that much to lose by speaking out and risking death...

Thats entirely understandable for many other women.

It is hard for me to immagine that she doesn't feel animosity towards the people who did this to her, so she uses derrogatory language. This is not usually something that happens to a woman allowing her to walk away smiling with her psyche perfectly intact... Some women are fighters by nature... and that may even come across in the way they speak.

What about all the other women this has happened to?

Do they not deserve some semblance of justice?

How can it be that because someone was not physically strong enough to ward off a group of men, who are known as the stronger of the sexes, who attack her... and she deserves to die?

Where does the shame really lie? Is it the woman's fault she was overpowered or is the mans fault for choosing to overpower her against her wishes??

I know the treatment of rape victims by some cultures is something that seems too alien for me to understand... But I have to wonder how this treatment is this rational.

How can so much be expected of women and then suddenly they can be worth so little because someone else has hurt or damaged them??

Perhaps the other women who have been raped wonder these things as well?

Maybe women are sick and tired of playing the victim role all around... the victim of destruction of all she holds dear, dishonor, and death all after becomming a victim of rape...

Maybe this woman in particular feels it is time to make an example of herself and speak out, on a large network none-the-less, and attempt to change things for the people around her...

How else will change for women truly come about?? Not through silence... there is a saying "my silence will convict me."

It may be an unpopular and seemingly unintelligent thing that she has done... or maybe it is one of the most important things a woman could do.

If she wasn't raped she is a liar. It would be an awful shame... I have no sympathy for lying in such a way that other poeple will be harmed for illegitimate reasons.

There is so much at stake here and it seems to take so little make things worse in the region...

If what she says is true... shouldn't people really be fighting police corruption (and other larger corruption as well) instead of Sunni versus Shia??

Immagine how many more people have been harmed by this corruption. Ultimately everyone has been... There must be a better way to fight evil.

Sadly if she was raped there may be no justice for her... At least other authorities are attempting to look into it...

Why can't INDIVIDUALS be accounted for?

I know its so easy to generalize and its easy to count all the things a certian classifacation of person has done to another...

But the door swings both ways and the main culprit that causes people to victimize each other is human cruelty (wich is generally caused by many factors such as, pride, ignorace, and hatred everywhere). This can only be perpetuated by random acts of violence!! A random act of violence is only a hollow kind of justice (and is hardly justice at all, if even).

I have no doubt that *rewarding* the accused, guilty or not... will do nothing more than discourage other women who may also wish to come forward and stop being afraid!

The way the government has handled this case has been shocking and deeply disturbing.

Many girls have been known to lie here, where the rapist will suffer and not the victim... however most of those claims have been more easily dismissed than this one...

In this case her allegations seem all too intentionally brushed aside.

Is THIS the government that people are supposed to be able to count on to make life healthier in Iraq?

This entire thing so far is a travesty no matter what.

Anonymous said...

I just heard a report on the BBC radio saying that American medical examination confirms she was raped. They could not say how many times or how many men raped her.

Nadia said...

All crimes that have been done in the hidden are difficult to know if they have happened or not for an outsider. That is why examinations and investigations are always needed. Even then the wrong conclusion can be the result but it’s the only option we have.

So whether this girl is telling the truth, the whole truth or lies does not change that facts we already know. And that is that rape is being committed in Iraq on men and women in prisons, by both Iraqis and occupation people since before. And nothing have been done to stop it.

Robert said...

Kid, vid not loading for me. Anybody else having same problem?

Konfused Kid said...

Try clicking on it, this will open a new window in the YouTube site and it should play then.

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

Ummm...Kid?

I don't mean to interrupt your current discussion, but have you heard anything from NIW lately? She hasn't posted in awhile and I am getting a little concerned about her.

Mo Abdul said...

Why the hell would you be concerned for NIW? She lives in the safety of the GZ with her traitor of a husband and American friends behind miles and miles of checkpoints and concrete blast walls. You should worry more about other Iraqi bloggers.

abbey said...

I am surprised to see so many American voices so appalled at the way KK examines the truth behind the allegations. As if here in america in the past year we haven't witnessed 3 upper middle class white boys get charged in a high profile rape case only to find out later the woman was lieing or at the very least extremely.. confused?

Every blogger/pundit/reporter/friend who questioned that woman's allegations in the first place was written off as a sexist racist pig and yet where would those 3 boys be if we had more closely examined what that woman said? Perhaps if people had asked the questions the DA would not have been forced to resign over misconduct and 3 boys wouldnt' have lost a year of college and been handcuffed on national news.

Anonymous said...

Mo Abdul said...

"Why the hell would you be concerned for NIW? She lives in the safety of the GZ with her traitor of a husband and American friends behind miles and miles of checkpoints and concrete blast walls. You should worry more about other Iraqi bloggers."

That's why we're worried you asshole! Because she keeps getting death threats and abuses from dickheads like you!

Bruce Larson*Moore said...

Each one, crossing one bridge at a time, eventually brings all to the opposite side, crossing every bridge, together at the same time, brings all to meet in the middle.

and so we*continue, lesser for that which we have been and are, yet greater in the knowing of what we could possibly be.

Google: The Last War, Bruce Larson Moore

Mo Abdul said...

Death threats??? In the GZ? From who? Her crazy American boss, pinned on her cubicle?

Anastasia said...

Kid, sometimes when I read this I get such a culture shock. Which is weird, because... well, different cultures, of course!

My friends and I get so vulgur when we're goofing off. The guy that hangs out with us the most is my boyfriend, and I've never heard him swear. (He says that this is because when he does swear, he wants to really add an emphasis.)

Don't think I'm critisizeing anything, because I'm not. Just pointing it out because it really struck me as a suprise for some reason, and I thought you might find it interesting.

But I think some of my uncles would kill me if they heard some of the things that come out of my mouth, so I get that what you said about your sister was ment (oddly enough) loveingly, because that's exactly the way they are with me.

Matt said...

Kid, I honestly don't know what to make of it. You make some pretty convincing arguments but her emotion seemed pretty damn real. I'm not gonna pass judgement one way or another on the situation as a whole because I just honestly don't know what to make of i.t

nadia n said...

hi, i agree with what you said here. while it's totally plausible that her story is true, like this kind of stuff happens with any occupation, it's definitely being used as a political football.

with regards to your post a couple of posts ago about dh'iaa al mossawi i'll just say this as an "outsider" that i like what he says
but
also over here in the western hemisphere there's been a tendency for right wing groups to sponsor these muslim scholars that talk about liberal causes like gay and women's rights and tolerance, while they also push for support for the bush administration's agenda and support israel(irshad manji is a good example of this).

a result of this is that some of the most liberal, feminist muslims i know are wary of what is called "progressive islam". so you can imagine what less liberal people think. it sucks.

but again, i like what the guy had to say. i like this french-algerian guy called soheib bencheikh as well.

nadia n said...

also

2. @Zeyad, Omar al-Juboori, Tariq al-Hashimi's aide said that her actual name is (something) al-Jumayli, what does that tell you? they even faked her tribe name, wouldn't that create some sort of rift with the Janabat???

maybe they didn't want to make it totally obvious who she was since she could get killed for it

Confessions of a Malamute said...

First off I dont support shrub of the invaders. I believe that Iraq should be free of foreign intervention. Not later NOW.

I used to have respect for you. Now I dont. Here is why

You said "No woman would talk like this in front of her parents, let alone the world. I myself woud probably kill my sister if she talked like this".

WTF is wrong with you ? You'd commit MURDER of your own sister for swaring ? Good thing you dont live here motherfucker you wouldnt be safe to walk down the streets with fucked up views like this. Seriously. If the cops didnt get you, you'd simply disapear and no one would give a shit. Youd murder your own sister because shes the VICTIM of rape ???? You disgust me beyond words. What a well and truly fucked up culture you have. Ya, blame the VICTIM in the name of god.

Its asshole comments like that, that gives bush and scum ammo to use against Islam in the US.

Get your head on straight motherfucker. Youre one very sick person.

Konfused Kid said...

@confessions

lol, first, i would not kill my sister if she was raped. i am totally against that and as i said above i have no problem marrying any woman who had her hymen torn, either voluntarily or not. and second, i didn't mean 'kill' in the literal sense, this preconception of yours really shows how really afraid The West is of Muslims. What I am saying is that it is totally unacceptable in our culture for a woman to swear in public, because that automatically means 'hooker'. In your society it is indeed different.

@lynette

You also seem to have trouble in culture comparison, it is a huge sin to change the tribe's name because the tribe's name will bring shame to the entire tribe.

Shirley said...

Anyone who doesn't understand the language would have trouble picking her story apart. It's not all that hard to lie about a rape, but unless she is an actress it's extremely difficult to produce that kind of emotion about it. I suppose it can happen. It's just that I tend to think it's unlikely.

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

@lynette

You also seem to have trouble in culture comparison, it is a huge sin to change the tribe's name because the tribe's name will bring shame to the entire tribe.


Huh?

Sorry, I think you have me confused with someone else. I was here asking about NIW.

Konfused Kid said...

Sorry lynette, I meant Nadia N :)

and i haven't heard from NIW, but don't worry, she probably is just having a time off blogging.

Anonymous said...

The Western preconception of Muslims is that they are misogynist and hold their 7th-century religious drivel to be the True and Correct Babblings of the Lord(tm), much like Christian bible literalists. Except the belief as to the literal correctness of Islam is far more universal among Muslims; most Christians aren't silly enough to believe what religious texts claim about the natural world that is observably false. Even the Catholic Church takes a more open position, rather than trying to debate scientific knowledge like the true age of the universe or the process of evolution, saying that the details revealed by science are ultimately irrelevant to personal salvation. And of course both Qur'an and Christian bible are so full of contradictions and nonsense that it surely must be an insult to claim that a being capable of creating the universe couldn't have written better if it were His own verbatim Word.

The real problem though is that literal interpretation leads to intolerance, and again this is more true of Islam today. I wonder how much a literalist Dh'iaa al-Mossawi can be? Either way it is a shame that you and he are in the minority.

nadia n said...

obviously i'm not immersed in the culture, i was just guessing. i'm also not really clear on who screwed it up

but that's kind of the point. at this point, with everything else going on maybe i wouldn't be all that concerned? maybe it was deliberate. maybe it's hearsay, i don't know, i dont know the source and who "they" are that lied in this case.

nadia n said...

anyways i am sick so i'm sorry if that made no sense.

i'll just add that even though it's not even close to what arab countries are like, even in liberal countries, a tiny tiy number of rape cases ever get talked about in the open.

the thing is of course is that it doesn't have to be either she's being used, or the story is true, it could easily be both. what i don't get is if it was totally manufactured, why wouldn't they coach her to use less crappy language, if you say it makes her look as bad as it does? wouldn't they want her to look good and virtuous? that seems like soething that would be part of a really difficult emotional state.

ok, i'll shut up now.

Original_Jeff said...

One thing I am really impressed with is how quickly the Iraqi government was able to finish a thorough, complete, and unbiased investigation of this alleged crime. Hell, here in America, we'd spend months interviewing all the witnesses, collecting physical evidence, talking with the medical people who examined the victim, accounting for times and locations of people, talking to witnesses of the person's movements, etc.

The Iraqis are sure swift and efficient!

fed up iraqi said...

original jeff, i'm not quite sure whether you're being sarcastic or if you actually believe what you're saying. that's a problem.

Original_Jeff said...

(It was 100% sarcastic. Obviously al-Maliki botched this like he has botched so many other things. The guy simply does not understand what a true government should be about. If he had been an actually competent leader, he would have issued a statement putting the alleged perpetrators on leave, he would have declared his support for a thorough and complete investigation, and he would have even perhaps assigned an independent Sunni investigator (maybe from outside Iraq)). The whole point is TRUST. He does not even seem to understand that getting the trust of moderate Sunnis is helpful or useful. What an idiot!)

Don Cox said...

"What I am saying is that it is totally unacceptable in our culture for a woman to swear in public, because that automatically means 'hooker'. In your society it is indeed different."____Only quite recently. My mother's generation would never swear in public (or at home either).

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

No problem, Kid. :)

Hopefully you are right about NIW and she's just taking a break. :)

Regarding your discussion here, there was something in my paper this morning. Maybe you have already heard this:

The story took a turn Friday when a Sunni human rights official said that a government committee has uncovered strong evidence to support the claims of the first woman, a 20-year old Sunni.

The official, Omar al-Jabouri, said that one of the woman's alleged attackers and an accomplice have been in custody since Wednesday, and that a four-member special investigative panel has continued to investigate the case despite Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's public statements that the woman lied.

The panel investigating the rape allegation is led by the Interior Ministry's intelligence service chief, Gen. Hussein Kamal. Al-Jabouri is an observer to the panel on behalf of Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, a Sunni.

The investigation is complicated because the woman has been charged with supporting the Sunni insurgency, Al-Jabouri said.

Anonymous said...

HEYYYYYY!! The only shame of rape is that of the rapist....the man who can't control himself and who acts like an animal! The man who cannot respect his sex or the sex of his victim. The ugly truth is a man who rapes a woman will also rape a boy. Rapists know no self control whatsoever.

Iranian said...

That's splendid news Omar. That monument is just down right insulting. It's not in honor of the Iraqi dead, but to insult the fallen soldiers of Iran. More power to the Iraqi government.

Anastasia said...

Original_Jeff-

right on. Too many stupid lawsuits about people burning their mouths on HOT cofee, or planting a sharp object in their take out chilli = one majorly backed up system.

Dan Cox-

Its also differant, though, because it used to be more acceptable for guys to swear than girls/ women. But gender roles here are practically non-existant, anymore. I think women aren't expected to have familys or get married as much as they are expected to get jobs. And I've noticed that tomboys are becomeing more the norm, even idealized. Girls are encouraged to be athletic.

Hell, I didn't own a dress for years.

Most of these things can't be said for my mom's generation, and none for my Grandmother's. So, yah. Lots of things have changed.

Kid-

You said that you'd marry a woman, even if she wasn't a virgin. Out of curiosity, is that the norm where you live, or the acception? I was under the impression that pre marital sex is a big no-no in the middle east.

And do most women wear head coverings? Diane Sawyer, from the news, said that this is very important.

anon2 said...

surprise, the woman is shitte, she's not from the janabi tribe, and the supposed rapists are Sunnis!!

Definitely a lot of people's opinions will change now, heh.

I don't understand why our culture blames the victim (the raped woman) instead of the criminal (rapists), so stupid!!! argh

moron99 said...

realistically and pragmatically speaking:

we have heard countless stories and fabrications covering the entire spectrum. A few of them have been true but the majority of them have been false. The nature and timing of this story fits the profile of insurgent propaganda. Tensions are high and the damage of the story can easily outweigh its real value whether true or false. The wisest course of action for the government is to publicy counter-attack the propaganda aspect and turn the affair over to the court system. Let them quietly find the truth and take the appropriate action.

It is an unfortunate reality that tensions are high and tempers short. Whether the woman was raped or not it would be an even greater injustice to let the telling of her story cause the death of more innocent Iraqi.

Anonymous said...

Soy piel justa alegre que elegiste hablar de esta materia, así que de mucha gente lejos del del mundo real .

Nadia said...

anastasia I lived in Iraq for many years and I did not cover my hair. My aunts not one of them covered their hair on a daily basis either they did however cover it when they prayed 5 times a day. I did have girlfriends who covered their hair and it was not a problem for them or me. They wanted to cover it, that is their right. There were other things on this planet that occupied our minds, like having fathers and brothers coming home from war, succeeding in our studies and making a contribution to humankind; hopefully your mind will soon be occupied with important stuff too.

About sex; from living in both the U.S and Iraq I saw a lot of similarities. On the outside young people in front of the parents act as if sex is none existence before marriage but the reality is something else.

For your information in my secondary school we had sexual education.

Anonymous said...

g7ab = whores not bitches. she said "I am not one of those whores".

Anastasia said...

Thanks, Nadia. Yah, nothing major going on here, recently. So I just do my best with the small things.

I thought that it would be more like what you said. From what I've read in the papers, and seen on the news it seemed differant, however. But I don't trust the American media when it comes to war- and anything they show or print about Iraq has to do with war, as far as they're concerned. That's why I thought I'd ask.

Nadia said...

Anastasia, please remember there is an enormous difference between Iraq before the war and now.

Anastasia said...

Yah, that makes sense. I don't have a whole lot of knowledge, even on America before the war. I was eleven when this whole thing started to come into the picture for me, and before that I could have cared less about what happened the next town over, never mind Afghanistan, or (later) Iraq.

So I'm here to learn, mostly.

Anonymous said...

To add a little something, it is interesting reading the male vs female reactions. As a female who was raped, who has talked about it, and who swears on a regular basis I saw the video as very true sorrow. I also saw the fear I see in all victims of rape. I'm american, and the only other culture I've discussed rape with would be Japan. They are less open than the US about rape, but still the same things come through.

I feel, my personal opinion, that it would be far better to take the woman’s confessions at face value first, especially with all of the information about her wounds. The evidence of abuse is being reported by numerous sources of many different opinions, so I feel it is safe to assume this is probably true.

As to the idea of her previous sexual experience... well there was a case in New Jersey (a US state case) in which a man was given a lighter sentence for forcibly sodomizing a woman because she was not a virgin. So even america can be stupid as hell about prosicuting assholes.

Still any investigation should have lasted longer than a day, especially with the medical evidence, and people should not judge a person by her (or his) vocabulary. What if she WAS a prostitute? Hell I don't care if she had agreed to have sex with the first one, if after that the two others raped her it is STILL WRONG.

Still, it's amazing the difference in male/female reactions... this issue seems to be divided more by gender than culture. Amazing.

Kyubai said...

Greetings Kid although I may disagree with u on a lot of stuff but when u speak words of wisdom I should be the first to salute u it is quite obvious that Sabrin was not raped (may be assaulted but not raped) but as shameful it was for us Iraqis to watch her on national TV giving all the shameful details I'm kinda content because this incident revealed the true loyalty that some people hold whether it is for Iraq or someone else in the end all I'll say is nice job kid and may God bless us all...

Nadia said...

anon 8:59

Just wanted to say that I agree with what you said. Rape is indeed an issue that seems to be divided more by gender than culture.

I nowadays live in Sweden and here there have been cases of rape in courts that have made people furious how men view women even in this part of the world.

Many times rapists get away with the crime or gets a lighter sentence based on that the girl was wearing a short skirt, or that she was drunk or did not fight back enough etc. Some say the reason for these outcomes might be because the majority of people in courts, layers, judges etc are older men which some/many of them still view women as second class citizens.

Anastasia said...

It is interesting, I hadn't thought of it that way. It shouldn't matter if a woman was dressing in a "sexually appealing way" or not. rape is not an act of lust- it's an act of violence, and control. If a man can't stand to see a little leg, he should move to Antarctica. He won't see much skin, liveing there.

Chrysm said...

To a fellow warrior of truth,

I came upon the address to your blog in a recent edition of Rolling Stone magazine over here in the U.S.

The rag has been around for awhile, and they kinda lost their way for a bit insofar as spending most of their time covering American mainstream (studio-supported and over-advertised trash) music, but throughout the years they've had special reports from various locations around the world giving a more or less TRUE representation of what was going on, from the PEOPLE of those countries, and not from what we'd see over here on 24-hour regurgitated garbage propagandist news channels (you have some over there too, I can tell).

I wanted to let you know that I have been listening... and watching... along with a TON of friends over here (young and old alike) who were never blinded by the bullshit of the Bush Administration and their attempts to take control of our country and others through lies, deceit, and bloodshed.

I'm sure you've noticed a lot of that is changing now... it's a battle I've initiated from the inside in a multitude of nations, communities, and townships online and offline to bring things back to the way they SHOULD be.

In regards to Iraq... this means that the future of Iraq is to be decided by Iraqis... and not anyone else.

The troop withdrawl by a multitude of nations formerly supporting the conquering ideals of my nation's "elected" administration should be an indication that people are getting my messages, loud and clear.

It is my sincerest hope that the people of your country can come to an amicable solution on your own terms, attempting to stop killing, raping, pillaging, or otherwise hurting one another... especially based on the ideals of it is being done in the service of Higher Powers (the name that any culture wants to give their divine protectorate is unimportant... but trust me in saying no God I've ever known would want people killing one another in no other justification than in his or her name).

Honestly and personally, I think that if the Iraqi people are to find their own right path, that someone like you, or in fact you yourself, is the kind of person they should be listening to.

All you've done is told it like it is. You keep it real, despite all of the misinformation being thrown all around you.

So thank you... from my rock schools to yours.

Regards,

Chrysm L. Evalesco

Anastasia said...

chrysm-
I know you weren't addressing me, but right on, man.

Q80 Pandora said...

*claps and whistles*

Iraqi Mojo said...

"It shouldn't matter if a woman was dressing in a "sexually appealing way" or not. rape is not an act of lust- it's an act of violence, and control. If a man can't stand to see a little leg, he should move to Antarctica. He won't see much skin, liveing there."

I agree completely.

Anastasia said...

thanks :)

onix said...

Kid i dont think you make much sense.

You to agree rape happens in irak, you 2 agree it is perpetrated by most armed forces alike.
And you are most sure rapes happen.
So am i. Rape is common in warlike circumstances.

You say noone speaks about it, no woman dares to retell the story or have it in the open.

So if for once it happens... that one woman tells, you cannot have any expectations about the way she does. Its completely individual and new.

I have read loads of words resembling bitches... in iraki blogs. Check wikiraki, 9 out of 10 articles are about rude words.

You think woman dont have ears? you think when men are swearing all day woman are not allowed the word tit or bitch????(when it is the subject and has definetly been close to the tone of conversation?)

ridiculous.

when someone complains about being raped, why does this video start with asking for a whorehouse?
of a woman? when the existence of whorehouses is not even admitted??
strange procedures.
And then about this scar....


some man saying she should fight and scratch.
its a dumb man. The official reports proof and advise woman at some point to surrender the struggle, because this kind of resistance ends up getting them dead, mutilated and hurt.

Now i think you iraki man should be ashamed. For knowing so little about woman and saying so much about them.

ANyhow the subject needs to get in the open. So the priority is not if the story is a hoax. (not my guess), but the matter is if this is the way it goes of, and what can we do against it.

since you admit rape happens , you to should be envious to get the options to avoid it.

Anonymous said...

She is lucky that Iraqis raped her. Had it been brave American soldiers, they would have murdered her entire family and then burned her with gasoline like they did to poor Abeer Janabi (may she rest in peace).

BlogIraqi said...

Its been sometime now since the incident happened. And I think we all agree that no one knows the truth.
The fact that this issue was forgotten only few days later, empowers the opnion saying that the girls testimony was not accurate or probably was not true at all.
We all know that there are actual rapes that are happening. Some by the americans and some other by the militias. Its a painful thing to say but I can't help saying it; Sabrine if you told a true story, shut your mouth and join the rest of the untold ones.

Melantrys said...

No, it doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means that there are too many people who tell women to shut up if they're trying to get what is their right.

And too many of them aren't simply uncaring bastards, but also uncaring bastards in power.... It's a shame.

SIUI said...

I find the atitude of the blogger to rape offensive if not sick! not different to the country side's folk he denegrades.
The question is : Is it likely to happen in today's Iraq? I feel certain that there are tens of thousands of Iraqi women rape victims suffering insilence, to this blogger's relief!

Q80 Pandora said...

"some man saying she should fight and scratch.
its a dumb man. The officialreports proof and advise woman at some point to surrender the struggle, because this kind of resistance ends up getting them dead, mutilated and hurt."

Im assuming that by 'man' u mean me. Well obviously if Im dumb you're not much smarter coz Im not a man :)
Surrender? Excuse me? Are u even female? Once a man bumped into me and started to pull my jacket off I screamed like a maniac and jumped straight into my car, there were people around and no one did anything becuz they assumed he's a relative!! When a woman is harassed she is the only one who can stand up for herself! This kind of resistance ends with them being hurt or mutilated? And i suppose living with the shame of being a rape victim who 'gave in' is a lot easier to bear??!!! So next time a man bumps into me and pulls my jacket off i should just help him out?!! "Hey go ahead Im not gonna put up a fight because i read this report that said women should surrender!" Do u even LIVE in the middle east? DO u know how important it is for a woman to feel chaste?!! you think it's just something that's easy to give away, just like that??!! Without a fight? Without standing up for yourself? what pathetic reports have u been reading? Many cases of rape are followed by murder to shut the victim up! Get your facts straight!!

Anonymous said...

Konfused Kid,

Talking about rape and standing against it makes you a bad person?

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