Thursday, April 05, 2007

300



"It's basically a propaganda where Batman kicks al-Qaeda's ass" - creator of 300 comic Frank Miller, about his next Batman comic
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

300
is a good movie technically speaking, I just wanted to clear that beforehand.

Now, Yuck.
That was my initial gut reaction as me and ExZombie, who seemed to like it, walked out of the Century Cinema, of course, it is partly due to the horrible abominations sold nearby as innocent hamburgers, but it was mostly because of Zack Snyder's big-screen abomination.
300 is the sort of film where you should walk in with your brain shut off and your eyes turned all the way up - revelling at the unforgiving bloody carnage like an al-Qaeda extremist as the first scene, which depicts how Spartans discovered natural selection by killing any weak babies around, gives you a hint at the comic-book mentality of what's coming up next, and it's a real guilty pleasure to caress your violence id as the visuals are a sight to behold, unfortunately you can't enjoy this wholeheartedly when every once in a while a phrase like 'ushering a new generation as we, protectors of freedom and democracy' against the 'darkness of mysticism and barabarism from the east' or 'let every brave warrior who came hither here, or in the NEXT CENTURIES, remember us, remember us, for what we stood for, and never underestimate the enemy...', and then there's the whole senate subplot....I did actually take the trouble to download the comic to see the differences, and the Senate bit exists nowhere - as King Leonidas prepares to go to war against the will of the gods, there is an intense political battle back home spearheaded by his loving wife against some sneaky dude called Theoden, so we get a fleeting passage of drama in which Nancy Pelosi....i'm sorry, Theoden, if you wanna look at it this way, accuses the Queen of being a traitor and not to reinforce the King Leoniads, in the end, the Queen can't stand it and simply whacks her trusty dagger in Pelosi's gut like somebody's wet dream, I kinda liked Clinton better, at least he jerked off to regular dames like the rest of us.

Another persistent theme is the mocking of religion, often the bread-and-butter of Hollywood, like Troy, where the Gods are mercilessly mocked, going as far as depicting that King Priam of Troy's only mistake was reliance on Apollo, highly contrary to Homer's intentions - 300 is very unkind to the Greek's Allahs and Jesuses, portraying their priests as decadent, half-men half-peanut butter creatures who live off touching the butts of poor oracles, and playing little gods over the population, this however, exists in the original comic-book.

Unfortunately, the filmmakers tried too much to hammer their pro-Bush foreign policy lest that walking-braindeath fanbase would get it that it ruined the setpieces for me, so much so that i wound up not remembering any, and don't get me wrong, i like that sort of film, I held about a gallon of pee all the way throughout Apocalypto for fear of missing a single bit of Aztec action and I didn't really feel it was racist in any sort, the difference, of course, is that the Aztecs are long gone - the Persians and their 'mysticism' (Islam?) are still around. However, it did make a fan of Frank Miller out of me, while I couldn't stand to read his 300 comic book, I went and downloaded his version of Batman, and so far, it's good stuff.

In the end, great visuals, great two-dimensional comic-book sensibilities, but shameless, god-awful propaganda, if you can stomach that, then go ahead by all means.

80 comments:

Little Penguin said...

I haven't seen 300 yet but it looks like Apocalypto was much better.. when watching Apocalypto, I didn't sense an overt political message and Gibson most certainly didn't try too hard to hammer in the anti-church message..

I dont think Hollywood has yet established itself as a political and/or religious authority over the unsuspecting masses.. Many will watch 300 and Syriana and will be significantly moved in terms of the way they regard a certain political perspective.. however, I think the majoriy would not.. I dont know, it's from what I've seen here..

Kyubai said...

300 is a good movie indeed and the most interesting thing for me in the movie is the illustration of the killing intention of king Leonidus it is almost original. For me I give him number one in warrior charisma in all the action movies I've ever watched.

Anastasia said...

I haven't seen it yet. Can't find anyone to go with me.

Do you really think it's an allegory? If it's American, I'd seriously doubt it. Everyone in Hollywood is a liberal, and if any of them are pro- bush, by some accident of nature, and someone finds out they'll be blacklisted or something.

Keep in mind that most Americans really don't like bush, and a great deal flat out hate him. He's like LBJ all over again. Without the draft, thank God.

Don Cox said...

I think the book is superb - some of the best artwork I've seen. So I don't see any need to see the film, which will just be a padded out version of the book. ___ One thing it does show is that you can make a lot of money by drawing well. ___As for the Anti-Zoroastrian prejudice, who cares? A battle film has to have bad guys.

Anonymous said...

Tengo gusto de leer sobre otras vidas de la gente y el tuyo es interesante .

Anonymous said...

sverginate a sangue
damerino cartoni
download supertettone
esibizioniste per strada
studentesse sexiversitarie pompinare
affetto indiana
ssex e calze
osare fighetta prostituta
fun fighette doppio penetrazione
mature leccano ragazzi
sborrate libre
deciso fighetta ubriache
tettone tardone
figa sedicenne gratis
allievo soldato sudore
bionde spogliarello in cucina
anziani scopano bionde
comfortable segretaria orale fotti
molto bollente amatoriali figa fotti
grassoccie sexi
puttanelle in collant
coy amatoriali sex
allargare
sex bionde sex
cerco verginelle nude
tettone tardone
generalista sesso
infermiere porno collant
risibile infermiera spogliarello
attractive tedesco sesso
taglio segretaria doppio penetrazione
velina bionda sex
retiring superpoppe ubriache
fighette sudore sul partito
hardcore junkey
attraente ragazze azione
asiatiche azione in pace
freddo pallido madre
foto castrate
agreeable cowgirl orale fotti
sandrelli nuda
sesso con donne cinquantenni
likeable soldato
piacevole fighette gruppo
carinissimo asiatiche sperma succhiere
racconti dei culi women
audace segretaria strip
grassoccie sexi
sesso con donne cinquantenni
strano fighette dildo

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

ROFL! I loved the review, Kid.

I've been putting off seeing Apocalypto, but maybe I'll have to, since everyone seems to think it's good.

Yes, and I'll probably see the 300 too, eventually.

I tend to agree though with the person who said everyone in Hollywood is a liberal. It's probably doubtful that it was made with a Bush agenda in mind. However, I'll think about it when I see the film. (When you think of Hollywood you should think Annie types.)

annie said...

(When you think of Hollywood you should think Annie types.)

o pleeease... there are many types in hollywood. all those torture scenes in 24. the was an article in the newyorker mag, they are complelty right wing. and disney, he was totally right, those guys made that fake 9/11 movie that blamed everything on clinton to the point of creating dialog and scripting events and scenes that didn't happen. after albright and clinton threatened to sue they had to call it a drama and put a disclaimer on it admitting it was just their fantasy. then there is abc which total snowjob for republicans.

the actors may be mostly dems, like all america, but the corporations, fox, disney, abc, nbc, all the big corporations donate more to the gop. follow the money.

nice try lynn

Little Penguin said...

hey Anon,

None of the links work!! :P

aNarki-13 said...

Kid: just one comment:
"Unfortunately, the filmmakers tried too much to hammer their pro-Bush foreign policy lest that walking-braindeath fanbase would get it that it ruined the setpieces for me, so much so...etc"

the movie is a SCENE BY SCENE adaptation of Frank Miller's 300, which was released (May 1998 - September 1998)
Bush came to office in January 20, 2001,
so how can it be Pro-Bush?


thanx for the comment, btw :)

Anastasia said...

TV is differant from movies. Like- look at Fox News, for example. The fact is, the people who make/ act in movies all live in California. And there are like three Republicans in the whole state.

And 24 is one show. Look at Gilmore Girls, for example. Totally written by liberals- and pretty much every other show on the air. It's like Toby Keith. One artist who supports Bush. Most others are just the opposite. Plus, the liberal veiws on TV are much more blatent than the conservative ones. Like, I've never heard of a tv character saying "I love president Bush," but Lorelei Gilmore did say that she hated him, and there were many other referances to her (Or the writers') political veiws.

Anyway, conservatives have the right to express their politics, especially since liberals do it plenty ourselves. And generally with a better reception.

Like the torture scene on 24 got a lot of attention. But who's going to freak out from seeing a liberal veiw "hidden" in a TV show? And how many people are actually going to change their veiws? It's more likely that their tastes for entertainment will change to fit their veiws. (This is what happened with me.)

annie said...

anastasia, you sooo don't sound like a 17 yr old.

abc was showing 'the 10 commandments' for the sat movie, so left.. except it isn't. they totally pander to the christianistas.

btw, lynn, this one's for you.
i am more a combo of pippi longstocking, eloise (my fav literary character), annie hall, and marlo thomas..

that ain't 'hollywood'. people always think i am from new york yet i am from northern cal, the most anti LA place on the planet. but then you wouldn't know that, being from minn etc.

And there are like three Republicans in the whole state.

one being the governor. and reagan, the poster boy of the right.

Konfused Kid said...

Anarki13, you're not reading my post very well habibi... I specifically did say that i DOWNLOADED the comic to see the differences, there is a complete senate suspicious subplot nowhere in the comic book, and while the rest sticks more or less to the comic book, the addition of the subplot for example tends to create the suggestion that it's not all innocent copy-paste, the holy Quran has been written 1400 years ago and now it's been used by Osama to kill people, distorting its meaning.

aNarki-13 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
aNarki-13 said...

?
yes, Bin Laden aside,
still, that scene didn't add any Pro-Bush policy meanings..

this was debated several times, the racism/politics issue. nothing came out of it.

this movie is open for interpretation.

you think its anti-iran, i think its not, and the greatest piece of bad-assery ever to be put on film.

to each his own.

note: if you really want the best, find:

Watchmen.
the Killing Joke.
and Kingdom Come.

Konfused Kid said...

Dude, it's fairly pretty obvious what the added subplot represents:

that is from www.allmovie.com:

"However, the added subplot involving the Queen has raised a few eyebrows, if only because of the questionable pro-George Bush politics it contains. Synder himself has shrugged much of this criticism, although even he cannot deny that this is one of the lone Hollywood products of its time to align itself such a troubled administration."

Either case, Apocalypto still much better atmosphere and is less stupid, i think.

Anastasia said...

17 is differant now than it used to be. At seventeen you have classmates going to boot camp, and then Iraq; and you saw your country attacked on its own soil when you were eleven or twelve. Some of our opinions truely differ from our parents'. We're seeing Gay marriages, and soldiers being beheaded, and dictators being hung. I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong (at least not at the moment), but these things are happening, and we're differant because of them.

You don't strike me as a Yankee, lol. I'm from CT, (Talks too fast, would never choose Starbucks over D+D's, denys that Bush could have possably been born here... yuck.)

I neglected the religious mania... point well taken. (I try to ignore it, and hope it will go away.)

However, if conservative veiws in the media were a threat, then adolesents would be much more effected. Look at college students in America. If conservatives are out to brainwash us, I think they're failing spectacularly.

Anastasia said...

OH! Annie- Seattle, Washington!! I get it!

Tom Villars said...

I've read several accounts of how the 300 is a pro-Bush propaganda film. I find it fascinating as it appears the movie is actually a pretty good Rorschach Test (aka Ink Blot Test) for determining a person's politics.

That the concepts of honor, duty, freedom and a willingness to die for these ideas are seen as "pro-Bush" is a little disturbing to me. These are values every man and woman should expire to, not something that divides political parties. Or am I making a big mistake in assuming everyone believes these values are the best and correct values?

Tom Villars said...

ps. Kid, any chance you could write a short note for Omar and Mohammed congratulating them on getting quoted by Bush during a press conference a couple weeks ago. :)

Forever hopeful,

Tom

fed up iraqi said...

ps. Kid, any chance you could write a short note for Omar and Mohammed congratulating them on getting quoted by Bush during a press conference a couple weeks ago. :)

LOL.

Konfused Kid said...

LOL LOL LOL, LOOOOOL.
I love you, fed up iraqi.
Tommy, your comment is a dangerous reworking of how a pro-Bushy like you and your merry folks at ITM use the values you mention to their twisted purposes, we're not talking about those basic values, we're talking at what exactly defines those values, for example, i could use your methods of reasoning and justify myself going all honcho and then killing off a million Jews to defend Palestine.

Konfused Kid said...

Congratulations, Omar and Mohammed, for being quoted by George Bush.


NEXT STOP: Your faces on the moon.

sentientdevice said...

I really didn't like 300... the fact that no one even tried to make a good movie out of it...

I love to read comic books and I liked what I had seen of Frank Miller's work so far... but I was truly disappointed. :( Maybe it was just the timing of the movie and the blatant propaganda...

Whatever it really was (everything) it left me feeling insulted.

I'm not even so sure Spartan society was about democracy and freedom... didn't they keep a lot of servants and slaves??

I've read that it was a great adaptation of the comic, but if it was such a great adaptation then what about the parts added in about the wife and the senate?? Why were those put in there??

I hated that Queen Gorgo. She was an idiot. All that talk and bravado about women being strong and being respected in Spartan society and then she can't even try to really fend off that nasty man from the senate... then of course the only thing left to do since she doesn't intend to fight him or cry out for help thus exposing him for the creep he is... is to just let him have what he wants... as if doing that is any guarantee she will get something she wants... To be so strong she was awfully weak minded.

Real women are smarter than that... and while real women support their husbands not all of them are so eager to send their loves off to die for the glory of battle.

I was not surprised at all when the guy "betrayed" her later on. I did not feel sorry for her one bit!! They say that sometimes rape is added into a story in America because when a woman finally gets revenge on her attacker the people here just love it and feel a connection to her... what stupid bullshit!! Of course I'm all for a rapist getting exactly what he deserves... but in this movie it was completely uncalled for... Did they just forget about all the emphasis placed on how strong the Spartan women were???

UGH!!! Anyways I really hated her role, that had been added into the movie none-the-less. Its like she wrote "The Military Wife's Handbook"... It was horrible!!! Wives try to be strong and supportive when their husbands go off to fight but this cow took it to an whole new level, she made me want to throw up. Nothing is ever as simple as she makes it look and war is NOT glorious!! Just ask any sensible woman married to a man in the military!!

That movie was truly messed up.

I'm very upset by the timing and that everyone here thought it was so awesome and kept talking about how "pumped up to fight" it got them... its really disgusting.

I can't even bother to complain about the monstrous looking Persians and the big fat man with knife hands... and the goat headed thing... and the armless legless naked lady... and all the lepers... it was so stupid!

I went into the theater excited and left feeling like my brain had been turned to pudding.

On a slightly positive note, the movie was visually stimulating.

I like the review you wrote, Kid. Not everyone is able to look at things the way you are. Thanks for taking the time to write about how you really feel about things.

CMAR II said...

Konfused Kid,

Theoden isn't Nancy Pelosi. He's Kofi Anan and the French, and the UN et al, who took money from Saddam (and passed it around to other UN members) to oppose the US in 2002 & 2003.

I'd bet that the added sub-plot was inserted at Frank Miller's request. 9-11 has affected his worldview substantially.

But what of it? I've have had to watch an unremitting string of anti-Bush propoganda over the last 5 years vomiting out of Hollywood. "300" hardly evens the score.

Personally, I was more bothered by the Spartan *culture* as an embodiment of freedom...simply because I knew too much about Spartans.

BTW "The Dark Knight Returns" is a fantastic comic book...albeit troublingly fascistic.

An Italian. said...

Dear Kid,

thank you for the excellent post.

The film is a VEWY Ahmehwican propaganda piece, as absurd as it might be, but quite impressive as far as special effects go.

Some things are even more ludicrous than others: take for instance the 'war rhinoceros' (LOL !!!), or the Spartans (a castal kind of loony tribe that enslaved other Greeks as 'racially inferior' - they were 'feminists', though, since Spartan women were freer than in most of the ancient Mediterranean societies) portrayed as supporters of 'fweedom'n'democwacy' ...

But I would suggest that people go and read the original account of the events of the war between the Persian Empire and the Greek city-states, the original source for the whole Thermophilae story, the 5 century BC Greek historian Herodotus (called since 'the Father of History') and his 'Histories'.

If people reading Herodotus were a by-product of this '300' film, then I'd say that it has been useful ...

Herodotus, 'The Histories', is available in good modern translations in paperback (a good one in English is the Penguin Books one).
I do not know if there is an Arabic translation in paperback, and if it is good.

But, dear Kid, it is an absolutely astounding book (I've read it three times, and now it will be the fourth).
It gives a complete panorama of the ancient Eastern Mediterranean, as seen through Greek eyes two thousand & five hundred years ago; and, through the Persian-Greek wars, it shows the roots of some concepts that we now like to associate with the 'West'.

You and all our Arab friends should read it.
And, yes, our four-handed friends from over the Ocean should especially read it - those of them able to read, at least ...:). Maybe they would become able to understand why human cultures are different from the US one ... and why nobody wants to become Ahmehwican !

I'm happy that the tiff with your dad ended up OK.

And I'm impressed by the way you repulsed this time the grotesque, extra-cheeky Ape Tom Villars :).

All the best,

Tom Villars said...

The Kid said, "NEXT STOP: Your faces on the moon."

It is nice to know we can both talk in the language of "tongue in cheek." :)

But on a more serious note, I've always thought your material should reach a much wider audience. It's a shame you couldn't have worked something out with the ITM brothers . Watching Iraqi's chat and debate in English would have been very instructional for many Americans.

Oh well maybe when you guys are as old as I am you'll calmed down and be more interested in talking again.

Tom Villars said...

The Kid said, "...i could use your methods of reasoning and justify myself going all honcho and then killing off a million Jews to defend Palestine."

That is what I found so weird. One could easily draw parallels between the Greeks defending their homeland and the Palestinians trying to take back the land that was taken from them in 1948, but NOBODY mentions the Palestinians in connection with the 300, they only think of comparing the 300 to Bush.

An Italian. said...

Dear Kid,

As for the Spartans, I forgot to mention one thing which is like salt in the wounds of our Ahmehwican warmongering friends, and of all those little children who would drink the '300' poison (if they want, they can check with the original source, Herodotus' 'Histories').

Fact is, that those Spartans who held back the might of the Persian Empire at the Thermophylae pass were a tribe of EEEEVIL Communists! (right, no 'fweedom'n'democwacy', in their case).

Their castal/racial tribe didn't allow ANY private property; they had NO coinage or money; all of them (males & females) at the age of 7 (seven) were taken away from their families, and put in some sort of tribal/State colleges, or Kibbutz, to learn the art of war, and that their only mission in life was the service to the Spartiates' tribe/State.
They (both males & females) could all have sex with whomever they wanted, provided that the one (of either sex) they had sex with was a Spartiate (if they strayed, the penalty was, after some horrible torture, death - keep the race pure !).

Since any sort of money or currency was illegal in Laconia (with Messenia, the area they had conquered for their tribal State), they had some towns of 'subjected' people who had to trade with foreigners (i.e., the whole rest of the world), and to pass on the goods to the Spartan State.
It did happen (since the whole idea of Communism may be good to some community of holy monks, but not to people in general) that their 'kings' or consuls (there were always two of them) or their generals would be tempted when outside of their land, & try to get free of their ethnic constraints, and get some money for their pleasure; when found, they would suffer a sticky end (check with Herodotus for that).

They had no 'slaves' (in the ancient Greek or Mediterranean sense, or in the more modern one); but the whole conquered 'inferior' population were their 'serfs'.
In Laconia & Messenia the whole territory was divided in 'feuds', where serfs would work; a State feudalism, but no private feudalism. Each Spartiate family, living out of the work of the serfs (called 'helotes') would be moved by the State from one feud to another every few years (being a Spartiate - i.e., a Spartan of the Master Race -, there was no way to become a baron or an emir, for sure ...).

Now, this Commie tribe of racist savages is portrayed in '300' as what the 'West' is about.
Kid (and all Iraqis & Arabs), DO please take note ...

If you read Herodotus (as I hope you'll do), you'll see that the whole thing was considerably different from what the simian propaganda movie '300' portrays.

Hellas (i.e., Greece) was a hodgy-podgy of city-States, speaking dialects of the same language (or, if you like, languages that were very similar).

Each one of those city-States (and most of their inhabitants) was adamant on just one thing, 'eleytheria' (which means, indeed, 'freedom'): freedom from outside control.

As for their system of governance, 'democracy' (or, as our Apes would say, 'democwacy') had a very scanty presence.

Some of those Greek city-States where under the 'power of the people', or 'mob's rule', or 'proletarian dictatorship' (the precise, just slightly different meanings of the Greek term 'democratia'), or going toward it (like Athens).

Some others where ruled either by 'oligarchy' (i.e., the 'power of the few', meaning the rich ones), or by 'aristocracy' (the power of traditionally 'noble' families).

Some where ruled by a tyrant (i.e., a dictator who had managed to take power, like your Saddam or our Mussolini).

Some where even ruled by a traditional King.

The Spartiates (the heroes of '300') were an oddity in the Greek context (while in India such a strange Commie/racist society was more common at the time).

Now, at the beginning of the 5th century BC, in comes the Persian Empire, a universal empire, that wants to rule over the whole known world.
And it says to the Greek city-States: 'surrender or die'.

And yes!
The Greek city-States decided to challenge that idiotic & monstrous idol-worshipping Persian horde, wanting to apply their rule, and their culture, and their laws to the whole world.
And the Persian Empire had the power of arms, and the power of richness, and a great universal ideology on its side (sure: all the people in Media - nowadays Kurdistan - and in the Fertile Crescent - nowadays Iraq & Syria & Lebanon & Palestine, and in Anatolia - nowadays Turkey, and in Egypt, and in parts of India and of Central Asia, had bowed their knees to that powerful Empire).

The emissaries of the Persian Emperor (first Darius in the late 6th century, then Xerses) did say to those ludicrous Greeks: 'Look, people, our values are the only good ones: otherwise, how's it that most people in the world, even inhabitants of previously mighty kingdoms, did submit to us ? Aren't they happy, indeed ? So, now, be wise, do submit to the Empire, and you'll be vewy, vewy happy !!!'.
(If you doubt what I say, do read the original source, Herodotus' 'Histories', and you'll see that I'm right).

But those Greeks and their shabby city-States, each one very different from the next, just poor fools eating dried figs and olives and goat milk, chose to withstand the imperial might of the Persians.

And they WON !

Now, dear Kid, what is, in the world, the equivalent of the Persian Empire of 2,500 years ago, nowadays ? (no, it ain't them poor Ayatollahs & their crap, as unpleasant as they may be to the Iraqi people & country).

There is only one Empire that wants to rule over the whole world by force of arms or bribery, and that wants to impose its values and mores on all the people of the world.

It is called ... right, it is called the United States of Ahmehwicah.

So, dear Kid, on one side you can see the effrontery of the propaganda agents of the US in serving us this comical cartoon, '300' (and, mind, those Persians had just two hands, NOT four !!!).

On the other side possibly you'll be able to understand why I oppose this American Empire, and why I do support all those who struggle against it (yeah, Kid, my 'extreme', LOL!), be they bearded cannibals (like in Afghanistan), evil turbans, stupid commies, ineffective liberals, mindless jihadis, Latino-American populists, wanking democrats, horrible nostalgic fascists, etc. etc. etc..

No Greek of the 5th century BC felt very comfortable with those most unpleasant Spartan loonies; but, yes, there was a common ground: to defeat the Persian Empire, that wanted to conquer the whole world, and to abolish eleytheria (modern Greeks pronounce it 'elefdheria', with the 'dh' of Adhamiyah), freedom, for ever.

Those 300 Spartiates (plus their helots and some Boeothians) with their sacrifice did just buy time against the Empire of that age; so that the (very different) Greek city-States were able to rally, and to decisively crush the Empire one year later, at Salamina and at Platea (yeah, people, do go & read Herodotus).

And that's what's important, dear Kid, Freedom; as for Democracy (& culture & values & customs whatsoever), do shove it up the ass of the servants of the Empire.

We (the people of the world) are all different: and we want to stay that way, oh Ahmehwicans !

An Italian. said...

Dear Kid,

only right now I saw those two comments by this foul and grotesque Ape Tom Villars.


Now, cheeky beast Tom, do you think that asking an Iraqi blogger such as Kid to apologise (yes, you sick vermin, that's what you did, LOL !!!) because he didn't agree with the baseless propaganda spread by those two infamous brothers is good manners ?

Or that it even makes sense ?

I'm happy (as any freedom-loving person would be) when one of you animals is so stupid as to show his/her real SNOUT !

An Italian. said...

@ Tom Villars.

[Tom the Impudent Beast] "NOBODY mentions the Palestinians in connection with the 300".

I did, Tom !
Aren't you able to read ?

(Ohwh, no, of course: most sorry for the indelicate question ...
and, yeah, animals aren't able to understand what is implicit).



[Sorry for the Italian overdose, dear Kid :):):)]

RhusLancia said...

kid, that was a great review!

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'll comment anyway (how do you do a winkie emoticon, or how about one wearing sunglasses, picking its nose? Yeah, insert that here).

With all the hullabaloo over the movie and its alleged pro-Bush stance, I was surprised few took the other side of it, like An Italian does here.

You know, that the Persians are Amehwiccan Imperialist Invader/Occupiers and the '300' Spartans are the heroic, patriotic, freedom-loving resistance and their terrorist allies of convenience.

Except to apply to the resistance, the Spartans would have to kill two to three Persians per day to appease their domestic and international fan base, but then kill dozens and dozens of Greeks per day. The former would earn An Italian's undying admiration, and the latter would be Xerxes' fault, if and when it's mentioned at all.

Bruno said...

Kid, I enjoyed your post.

Here is another guy who sees it almost exactly like you do; you have to check this out:

http://www.exile.ru/2007-March-23/war_nerd.html

Here’s a foretaste:

[war nerd] “Zack Snyder's movie is the "Hoo-ah!" version of this story. Every time the Spartan king Leonidas makes a "rousing speech," his warriors yell "Hoo-ah!" like the Rangers in Mogadishu in Black Hawk Down. Actually the Spartans had a rep for silence, but we're not dealing with great historical minds here. What had me really wanting to puke is that this movie tries to make Sparta into some kind of Land of Hallmark Card-givers. There's about an hour's worth of perfume-ad scenes where Leonidas and his lovey-dovey wife, a feisty lady in one of those bondage-lite Greek dresses, cuddle and make eyes at each other and say patriotic stuff by way of foreplay. Yeah, that's why you see those bumperstickers, "Sparta was for lovers."” //end


CMAR has a point here:

“ Personally, I was more bothered by the Spartan *culture* as an embodiment of freedom...simply because I knew too much about Spartans. ”



An Italian –

That’s a very interesting post on the nature of the ancient Greeks and the parallels that can be drawn to the modern day situation. Thanks, it needed to be said.

Rhuslancia attempts, in his lame way, to de-legitimise the struggle of Iraq for freedom by pointing out that Iraqis have killed a lot of each other as well, as if universal American rule will be the solution to war, LOL! Evidently he doesn’t realise that the ancient Greeks used to fight each other ALL THE TIME and that this did NOT de-legitimise their struggle against Persia. The Greek struggle against Persia is universally recognised as just, despite the internal frictions within the Greek world as a whole.

RhusLancia said...

bruno: "Rhuslancia attempts, in his lame way, to de-legitimise the struggle of Iraq for freedom by pointing out that Iraqis have killed a lot of each other as well, as if universal American rule will be the solution to war, LOL!"

bruno attempts, in his consistent apologist way, to gloss over the horrible crimes committed by his freedom-fighting "resistance", as long as they kill two to three Amehwiccans per day as well.

Leonidas: "SPARTANS!! Today we have killed a few Persians! It has been hard, but we have DONE IT! This satisfies our domestic and international FAN BASE!! So come, SPARTANS! Join me at the marketplace where we can kill many, much more easily!! Is not the blood of our countrymen the same color as the blood of the PERSIANS!! Come, spill much with me!!"

brunoclides: "HOO-AH!!"


...

"universal American rule" is a figment of your bloodthirsty imagination.

CMAR II said...

Tom Villars,

Watching Iraqi's chat and debate in English would have been very instructional for many Americans.

I agree. You can see Kid debate with Khalid Jarrar here.

annie said...

could you check that link cmar?

Tom Villars said...

cmar ii, thanks for the link.

I'm not sure three post from Kidd makes a debate, but yes this was interesting. I've always thought Kidd had a more balanced view of America's role in Iraq, although this has slipped from time to time on his own blog, it was nice to see it on another Iraqi's blog.

I'll have to go through some of the other post to see if there is more back and forth between the Kidd and Khalid Jarrar which I assume there is from some of the comments.

Thanks again.

CMAR II said...

Tom,

I don't agree with a lot of what Kid says in his blog. But one thing I like is that he says what he says because it is what he thinks it. He doesn't have a "dogma filter". That's becoming less and less true, as so many bloggers feel obligated hammer everything that happens in Iraq as either a problem caused by the foreign troops or a problem caused by foreign jihadists (depending on the perspective of the blogger).

It's like American political bloggers who blame every problem in the US on Bush or on Congressional Democrats, while ignoring the 300 million Americans who ambivalently chose to put them office.

I like reading Kid's posts because he has not forgotten that Iraq has one or two Iraqis living in it.

An Italian. said...

@ RhusLancia, 8:35 PM (answering me & Bruno).

[Rhus] "'universal American rule' is a figment of your bloodthirsty imagination".

Oh poor Rhus!
Yes, now that the Iraqis (again, I don't care if Baathist, nationalist, jihadis, turban-supporters, or normal people who witnessed the cowardly crimes of your 'heroes') have defeated your evil plans, making them drown in a quagmire from which you cannot get out, it is easy to deny the obvious, and ascribe it to 'imagination'.

But come on, Rhus dear: don't you remember the great plan, the Project for a New Ahmehwican Century ?
Don't you remember you silly US warmongers at these Iraqi blogs, stating & repeating enthusiastically that the invasion of the cradle of human civilisation, Iraq, was just the beginning of the conquest of the whole Middle East, because your 'Ahmehwican Values' & customs & economy & mores had to be imposed on all the rest of the world ?
Ahmehwican-imposed 'nation-building' on a global scale ?

Yes, precisely like the sacrifice of Leonidas bought the Greeks the needed time to organise their defences against Xerses' Empire, so the courageous resistance of most of the Iraqis has bought the world the needed time to defend itself against your arrogant, hubristic plans of global conquest.

As you know only too well, dear Rush, there won't be ANY 'New Ahmehwican Century', thanks to Iraqi insurgents.

So, now that your crazy plan to rule the world (as arrogant as the one by the Persian Empire in the 5th century BC) is well on its way to be defeated, to claim, as you do, that it 'never existed' is just a blatant case of sour grapes ...

Anastasia said...

IDK, Italian. I have my beefs with my country, sure, but I wouldn't put it in such a nutshell. People are people, everywhere, and most of the people in the US aren't on the extreme ends of issues. Most people are in the middle. You just don't hear from those guys because they aren't loudmouths like- well, me. The world (as you have most likely noticed) isn't in black and white, but shades of grey.

And, I don't know- WANKING Democrats... hmmm... don't Republicans wank, too? lol.

That said, I really am just doteing on the details. America is an empire, and out politicians would do best to just cool it, and leave everyone else alone. We can all learn an important lesson from Switzerland. And Rammstein- any Rammstein fans here?

And yup. lol. EEEEVILE communists. I'm quakeing in my boots. My parents get very grumpy when I start goofing on communism. It's funny.

Also- the US based our Government on the Greek government. So there are, naturally, going to be similaritys.

Or was that the Romans?

idk. It's all Greek to me, lol.

Once again, good points made by all.

Little Penguin said...

Kid, is it just me or do Iraqi blogs have this virus in them that makes many of their readers rude towards eachother?

it's like the iraqi trait of being stubborn to other people's opinion is passed on through the click of a mouse!

I'm in Kuwait.. wish I could fly over to Jordan to eat bagilla ib dihin with you.. :)

Konfused Kid said...

heyyyyy Penguino...hay shjabak hna!

i hate biglla bil dihin, but maybe kahi?


anytime :D

Little Penguin said...

i asked whether I could or not.. ma tirham.. I'll need two visas.. one for Saudi Arabia and one for Jordan..

next time i'll come directly to Amman.. or you can come to London.. allah kareem.. im having an ok time.. would've liked deeper company.. my cousin is shwaya shallow.. lol

Regards

Bruno said...

[rhuslancia] “Leonidas: "SPARTANS!! Today we have killed a few Persians! It has been hard, but we have DONE IT! This satisfies our domestic and international FAN BASE!! So come, SPARTANS! Join me at the marketplace where we can kill many, much more easily!! Is not the blood of our countrymen the same color as the blood of the PERSIANS!! Come, spill much with me!!"

Rhus, I don’t want to start making disparaging remarks about your intelligence, because we have mostly refrained from such remarks to each other … whew (*controls himself*) … let me just say that your paraphrasing is closer to the truth than you can imagine. Who the HELL do you think the Spartans killed when there were no Persians? That’s right, Greeks. Lots of Greeks.

Does that make their fighting on the side of the same Greeks that they also killed immoral?

Are you seriously making the argument that conquest by Persia would have been better than the Greeks uniting against the foreign invader and tossing them out? Or does that part of the argument slip you by?

[In any case, let me also note that the analogy to Iraq is not perfect. Whereas the Greek city states tended to operate with a hierarchical system, the guerrillas in Iraq do not. There are probably hundreds of groups in Iraq right now. Hundreds of thousands of tons of explosives have been looted and cached in Iraq. To kill a dozen people in a market takes a single mortar bomb or artillery shell, and a handful of people to organise it. Your lame attempt to paint the entire resistance with the actions of a small minority is duly noted and laughed at.]


[rhus] “universal American rule" is a figment of your bloodthirsty imagination.”

For somebody who has so much to say on US foreign policy, you read VERY little of it.



U.S. Strategy Plan Calls for Insuring No Rivals Develop:
A One-Superpower World
By Patrick E. Tyler - March 8, 1992 - The New York Times

“ DEFENSE STRATEGY OBJECTIVES

Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power. These regions include Western Europe, East Asia, the territory of the former Soviet Union, and Southwest Asia.

There are three additional aspects to this objective: First, the U.S. must show the leadership necessary to establish and protect a new order that holds the promise of convincing potential competitors that they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate interests. Second, in the non-defense areas, we must account sufficiently for the interests of the advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership or seeking to overturn the established political and economic order. Finally, we must maintain the mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role.
[...]
NATO continues to provide the indispensable foundation for a stable security environment in Europe. Therefore, it is of fundamental importance to preserve NATO as the primary instrument of Western defense and security as well as the channel for U.S. influence and participation in European security affairs. While the United States supports the goal of European integration, we must seek to prevent the emergence of European-only security arrangements which would undermine NATO, particularly the alliance’s integrated command structure.” //end excerpt.


The architects of this document?

None other than our favourite neocons, Cheney and Wolfowitz.

It’s a recipe for global domination, nothing less. Funny thing is, non-Americans seem to know more about it than Americans … ESPECIALLY warmongering Americans that see perpetual violent US occupation of areas that just happen to be the world’s richest reserves of oil as serving the cause of peace.

My statement is FAR from a figment of my imagination.

Unfortunately.

Bruno said...

[an Italian] “Yes, precisely like the sacrifice of Leonidas bought the Greeks the needed time to organise their defences against Xerses' Empire, so the courageous resistance of most of the Iraqis has bought the world the needed time to defend itself against your arrogant, hubristic plans of global conquest.”

There is great truth here. I would also say that Iraqis are in a sense fighting not only for themselves, but for the rest of us too. They have shown up the limitations of US power and shattered the arrogance of the US potentates that thought the world was ripe for the taking. The US public has been woken up to the real cost of foreign adventures (as opposed to invading such very mighty nations like Grenada and Panama) and will hopefully put the brakes on similar adventures for some time to come.

I would support a global tax to raise moneys for the Iraqi peoples after the US has left, in order to try and help them rebuild their country. We owe them a lot.



[Anastasia] “And Rammstein- any Rammstein fans here?”

Talking about this?

http://german.about.com/library/blmus_rammst04.htm

“ This is not a love song,
this is not a love song.
I don't sing my mother tongue,
No, this is not a love song.

We're all living in America,
Amerika is wunderbar.
We're all living in America,
Amerika, Amerika.
We're all living in America,
Coca-Cola, sometimes WAR,
We're all living in America,
Amerika, Amerika.”


Good old Rammstein. They rock.

Don Cox said...

"Congratulations, Omar and Mohammed, for being quoted by George Bush."____I think "quoted by George Bush's speech writer" would be more accurate. I would be amazed if Bush actually reads any Iraqi blogs - although he would learn a lot if he did.

RhusLancia said...

me: "'universal American rule' is a figment of your bloodthirsty imagination".

An Italian: "So, now that your crazy plan to rule the world (as arrogant as the one by the Persian Empire in the 5th century BC) is well on its way to be defeated, to claim, as you do, that it 'never existed' is just a blatant case of sour grapes ... "

My crazy plan? I didn't write the PNAC docs!

But you know, even if you read the PNAC stuff, they talk about American leadership and influence. It takes a deep, deep, deep hatred of America to take a leap even from that all the way to "Imperialism" like Xerxes, Julius Ceasar, or Napolean. But it's a leap (of the imagination) that you are all too willing to take. And once you do, every perception becomes a branch of the same tree. This is why the sacrificing of tens of thousands of Iraqis on the altar of "resistance" by Iraqis and their foreign terrorist allies is justifiable in your mind. Welcome, even. Even just to buy time to set up a global tax, in bruno's view.

oh, speaking of...

bruno: "To kill a dozen people in a market takes a single mortar bomb or artillery shell, and a handful of people to organise it. Your lame attempt to paint the entire resistance with the actions of a small minority is duly noted and laughed at."

Yes, and as anyone can see, the resistance manages to kill dozens of Iraqis per day and two to three Americans, on average. So your lame attempt to paint the entire resistance as justified based on the actions of a tiny minority is duly noted. I don't laugh though, I think it's sad that you could care so little about Iraqis.

Iraqi Mojo said...

I saw the History Channel special on the '300' Spartans (turns out 700 Thespians had joined them) and it was pretty good. I haven't seen the movie, but it looks like something out of Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

Anastasia said...

Bruno-

Yes, Rammstein is amazeing. I have the video on my blog ("The Deep Dark Teatime of the Soul") You might have to go into the archives a little to find it, though.

It really gets the point across.

Rhuslancia-

lol. I think he has you mistaken for me. I was going to start with Antarctica. The Penguiuns and scientists will never see it comeing. The first thing I'll do, naturally, is build about 400 wal*marts, all within 15 miles of eachother. Then will come the McDonalds, and the Super Stop and Shops... *evile laugh* Sadly, there will be little to no natural resources I can strip from my new empire, but give it time. Pink is the new black, and fish is the new oil.

On a more serious note-- troop surge... supposedly to help stableize things, and put down insurgents. Make things a little safer for your average citezen. how do you guys feel about that? Personally, I have my doubts, but I'm no expert.

An Italian. said...

@ Bruno, 4:37 PM (to me).

I do completely agree with you.




@ RhusLancia, 10:30 PM (to Bruno).

[Rhus] "I think it's sad that you could care so little about Iraqis".

First:
If Bruno (or me, or others anti-war, anti-occupation posters) didn't care about the Iraqis, we would have just abstained from commenting.
Precisely like the powers that be (China, Russia, France, & the rest of the non-American, non-UK world) did (and keep doing), on the basis of Realpolitik:
'The stupid U.S.A. fell into a nice trap in Iraq.
It will be worse than Vietnam for them.
They'll be defeated shamefully, costly, and their world hegemony will this time be broken for ever.
Why should we rock the boat ?
Let us leave them in that trap of their own doing (like the Soviets in Afghanistan), and we'll reap the good results'.

But posters commenting at Iraqi blogs against your deluded propaganda do it instead because they are indignant from a moral point of view, and, because they, precisely, care about the Iraqis.
One cannot see the rape of a country by a superpower gone crazy, and say nothing.

Second:
You like to fake that you are rational, Rhus, but you are anything but.
Why don't you learn some common-sense Realism ?
Whatever were the plans that lead you to invade Iraq, committing a crime against humanity followed by countless others, they have already failed.
You have been, to all extent & purpose, defeated (where's the 'peaceful Middle East under US control', Rhus ?).
The 'Surge' (or escalation) has already completely failed as well, as was inevitable.
There won't be peace in Iraq before the day you pack your bags, and go fricking home.
You see why you should learn something from the stand of the 5th century BC Greeks against the Persian empire?
Some people do not like to be slaves in their own countries, even if that slavery were golden.
So most Iraqis are doing: no, they won't surrender to the US, no way.

If you were sensible, you would work to prevent a worse defeat for your country (and any delay in your withdrawal will make your defeat worse), to stop the senseless sight of your soldiers coming home in star'n'striped boxes (since it is quite obvious that you don't give a fig about the Iraqi population), and to stop the crazy squandering of the wealth of the American people.

But you don't.
I'm not surprised ...

RhusLancia said...

anastasia, that's brilliant! you will have complete hegemony over the world's penguin supply, able to set prices at will!

For me, cheneyco can have Iraq's oil and Halliburton can have the no-bid contracts. I just want to see a new Disneyland built over the top of ancient Babylon. No particular reason, it would just be neat.

re: the "Surge"- I think that combined with everything else it could help. It all goes to helping the gov't provide security which leads to reconcilliation which leads to economic development which leads to a free, stable, prosperous, and independent (An Italian!) Iraq. It won't get better overnight, but as we've seen it can get worse. Here's to hoping it gets better.

RhusLancia said...

An Italian: "First:
If Bruno (or me, or others anti-war, anti-occupation posters) didn't care about the Iraqis, we would have just abstained from commenting."


No, you want to see the US "defeated shamefully, costly, and their world hegemony will this time be broken for ever." This is the impression I get from every single post you & bruno and a few others have ever written. You care about the Iraqis only inasmuch as you can blame their suffering on the US. bruno, for example, can hardly contain his glee as he posts his daily roundup of US deaths and setbacks in Iraq.

How about this. The "RealPolitik" of the sanctions in Iraq produced a claimed 500k deaths, and Albright said it was "worth it". Don't you think that's a shameful thing to say? Well it did contain Saddam, didn't it? And scr*w Iraqis, right? You must agree these are terrible things to say.

But removing Saddam by force cost a claimed 3,750+/- civilian deaths, and roughly 9,200+/- military ones. That's a lot of people. A hell of a lot(1). we could stop right there and you could condemn the war on those grounds. However, at that point many Iraqis, most I'd say, were happy to have shed the yoke of the toppled regime and the future held great promise.

But there was a problem, you see? The US planned for a best-case scenario only. That is, a quick transfer of power, quick reconstruction, quick exit. We planned to have only about 5k troops in Iraq by now. The toppled regime had other plans, lest they be held accountable for their crimes while in power. So they set about burning the country with their newfound terrorist allies of convenience, who they let in to face the Great Satan. All along the way, they knew or should have known, that they couldn't face the Us military toe to toe and win. They need your help, your encouragement, your support. And you give it so willingly. You try to separate attacks on civilians- that is, deliberate, mass casualty, terrorist attacks- from "legitimate resistance" attacks on military target only, and say you support only the latter, but the terrorists know that your half-*ssed justifications and continued cheerleading serve their purposes.

So here we are, four years later, and your heroes are still busy trying to wreck Iraq. Well, many of them are. A few have turned on their terrorist allies of convenience and are fighting them now.

But there are a claimed 655k deaths (by that study, more than 2/3 not caused by the MNF). What does one of your champion Iraqi resistance supporting bloggers have to say about that? This:

BT: "Do you think the war was worth it? Why?"

Truth About Iraqis: "Yes, it was worth it because it has brought a world power to its knees, it has shown that talk of democracy is really talk of how to plunder and pillage, it has shown the world the ineptitude of the US military, the ignorance of the American electorate, the corruption in the DOD, CIA, State Department and so on. It has shown that a few hundred patriotic fighters in sandals and robes can roll back the decay of a power-hungry zealotry. Madeline Albright has said the war was the greatest blunder in US history. Let us hope the American people take better responsibility with their so-called democracy."

This from an Iraqi, too. and so, An Italian, I have begun to think that some so-called "anti-war" posters are really not "anti-war" at all. They are actually "pro-war" but most importantly "pro-US defeat" more than anything. And, yes, they don't give a rat's *ss about Iraqis caught in the middle.

An Italian: "One cannot see the rape of a country by a superpower gone crazy, and say nothing."

So how can you watch the rape of a country by the "resistance" and their terrorist allies of convenience, and say nothing?

Chrysm said...

Kid,

Who knew a movie review would garner you this much infighting amongst your commenters? :-)

As stated in previous comments, we saw 300 on the same day... guess we saw it a bit differently though.

Personally, I didn't see Xerxes representing Islam... I saw a man trying to say he was a god, and forcing people into telling him he was through money, slavery, and bloodshed.

I've read the Quran, I missed the part that would justify such behavior by any human being.

As for Pelosi... try not to hate on her too much. She may be a chick, but she pisses the HELL out of Bush... which earns her high marks from my team. ;-)

As for comments from some guy about how "it's a shame you don't have the kind of readership as other Iraqi blogs, blah blah etc. etc."... I've always believed in quality over quantity.

You may not have as many readers as the propagandist blogs, but you've got the most important ones.

Love and Peace (regardless of faith),

Chrysm

Bruno said...

[Rhus] “But you know, even if you read the PNAC stuff, they talk about American leadership and influence.”

No, they talk about preventing any possible challenge to American hegemony; they talk about “full spectrum dominance” where not only is the world militarily impotent before the US, but everything that we read or hear comes to us pre-filtered via the US paradigm of thought. They talk about stopping countries from “even aspiring” to a greater REGIONAL (nevermind global) role. They talk about forcing countries to stay in alliances wherein the US is the senior partner and calls the shots.

That’s de facto as close to a declaration of war on the rest of the world as you can get.

Think of the practical implications. South Africa, for example, IS playing a greater regional role right now, getting involved in conflict mediation all over the African continent. Under US rules, that’s a no-no. Either America does it or no-one does.

Sorry, you may want to live in the Big Brother version of the American hegemony (since you’re a Yank and all), but I sure don’t and neither do billions of other people all over the globe.

[rhus] “Yes, and as anyone can see, the resistance manages to kill dozens of Iraqis per day and two to three Americans, on average. So your lame attempt to paint the entire resistance as justified based on the actions of a tiny minority is duly noted.”

Unfortunately, Rhus, as you should know by now, I am always able to back my rhetoric up with actual FACTS, as can be seen right here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/images/sigacts-061000.jpg

That’s a graph showing the “significant military actions” in Iraq.

Please do notice the great difference in attacks on military targets and the attacks on civilians.

So even IF you include attacks on civilians as “the work of the Resistance” the truth is that the vast bulk of the effort has been directed at precisely the Occupier and the auxiliary forces in Iraq. But of course, the truth is that resistance groups have little to gain from hitting civilian targets (since the world and especially the American military don’t give a shit about dead Iraqis anyway) given that these actions will directly generate opposition to such resistance. The truth is that most attacks on civilians are generated by purely sectarian organisations on both sides of the sectarian gap that kill on the basis of sect. Some of these are even supported, armed and trained by the US, such as the Badr Brigade within the Ministry of the Interior, not to mention units like the Wolf Brigade.

When you mention civilian deaths, you are actually also talking about those caused through US subsidiaries.

The gap between US military and civilian deaths is easily explainable, if one bothers to engage one’s brain and think about the nature of the targets. US personnel ride around in heavily armoured convoys that can fire back, that are supported by airpower. They themselves are well protected with ballistic jackets and other armour. If they are hit and severely wounded, they can count on the best field medical system in the world to stabilise them and rush them by chopper to a hospital where amazing things are done in patching their broken bodies together.

Iraqi civilians have none of these advantages, they practically don’t have functioning hospitals, even IF they can traverse the maze of sectarian roadblocks to get there. It’s pretty obvious why killing Iraqi civilians is dead easy and killing US soldiers is a lot harder.




[Italian to rhus] “If you were sensible, you would work to prevent a worse defeat for your country (and any delay in your withdrawal will make your defeat worse), to stop the senseless sight of your soldiers coming home in star'n'striped boxes”

Rhus has pretty much made it clear that he wants a US ‘victory’ (whatever that is, since there are maybe 10 - 15% of Iraqis that are pro-US, not through love but through what they think they can get via the US) at any cost. Dead US soldiers don’t bother him. Neither do dead Iraqi civilians, unless he can spin them into his narrative that sees the US in Iraq as a benevolent force trying to keep the natives from killing each other. I would like NOTHING more than for this extremely stupid sectarian violence to END, because the polls have made it abundantly clear that both Sunni and Shia want the US OUT OF IRAQ.

annie said...

they don't give a rat's *ss about Iraqis caught in the middle.

rhus new boring mantra he thinks if he says it enough some idiot will believe him, or fall over trying to prove how much we 'care'. he has totally infected 24's thread w/this drizzle and nor he comes peddling it here seeing how much traction he can garner.

is it just me or do Iraqi blogs have this virus in them that makes many of their readers rude towards eachother?

little penguin! sorry, so sorry. i suppose we should all apologize to kid also.

in case you haven't heard what the msm is not supposed to talk about but has in fact slipped out from the words of rummy and also the israeli foriegn service.. people are paid and recruited to blog for the neocons. the pentagon has a new wing built for the very purpose of this 'info warfare' which is th new improved front of fighting terrorism. they not only fund pro america blogs they infect (virus) other blogs comment sections and dominate the conversation often leaving the impression they represent a majority of the american public because they certainly take up an inordinate amount of space, totally disproportionate to the percentages in our society, fighting the 'america do or die' point of view.

certainly there are many posters who comment in their individual single voice. mixed amoungst these there are the info warfare commentors. when the subject gets to hot they divert the topic focussing on things like 'you don't give a rat's ass etc' or you just hate your country, or you support terrorists or other blather. they are easily recognizable. you will also find bloggers who appear for the specific purpose of calling out these paid lying promoters of the neocon agenda. this is one of the battleground of info warfare. their disguise is posting as some 'regular person'. one of the ways you can always spot them is no matter what the instance, they are unable, unwilling, and not allowed to say anything against the empire, not even ABU g. it will always be some lone isolated violator of freedom that is swiftly removed due to the diligence of the good empire etc etc.

as a lone person who really who finds it very difficult to make a difference or make my voice heard in society, especially here in america, land of stolen elections and stuffed justice departments filled w/christianistas, rapture nuts and neocons, one of the ways i fight back is coming on here and making there job of spreading lies and propaganda a little harder.

that is why you find all this rudeness, you have entered a virtual online battlefield.

Moey said...

I was shocked by your comments on my blog, I thought that we spoke about it before.. what did ex-zombie tell you so bad that made you say whatever you did on my blog?? please email me back!!

Anastasia said...

Italian-

Almost everyone here is REALLY pissed off about the war in Iraq, for one reason or another. Even (possably especially) the Americans.

To say that all Americans are war pigs, is to say that all French are cowards, and all Iraqis are suicide bombers.

Chill, I'm pretty sure we're on the same side here, in the grand scheme of things.

An Italian. said...

@ Anastasia,

"To say that all Americans are war pigs, is to say that all French are cowards, and all Iraqis are suicide bombers".

Dear girl,
I didn't say anything of the kind
(but, yes, your Government, your politicians and your foreign policy in the past few decades most definitely ARE).

RhusLancia said...

Me; “Yes, and as anyone can see, the resistance manages to kill dozens of Iraqis per day and two to three Americans, on average. So your lame attempt to paint the entire resistance as justified based on the actions of a tiny minority is duly noted.”

bruno: "Unfortunately, Rhus, as you should know by now, I am always able to back my rhetoric up with actual FACTS, as can be seen right here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/images/sigacts-061000.jpg

That’s a graph showing the “significant military actions” in Iraq.

Please do notice the great difference in attacks on military targets and the attacks on civilians."


Yes, and as you fully know (and even admit later on), Iraqi civilians suffer a far greater number of casualties. Here is a graph from the same source as yours, as if you need one.

So I am willing to deduce that an IED that blows up without producing casualties counts as one "attack" on the MNF, and a suicide bomber who kills dozens of Iraqis at a marketplace also counts as one "attack" against civilians. Oh, here's a nice example of the Muqawama trying to hit the MNF:

"We'd been in place for less than ten minutes when the mortars started landing. It was only three or four rounds, and they were off behind one of the buildings in the village.
...
I saw a crowd of villagers thronging up to the gate of the OP. Somewhere near the front, there was a man struggling towards the Marines. I'll never remember what he looked like or the clothes he wore, but I'll never forget his burden.

He carried a little girl. She looked six or seven. Her head lolled back, her dark, curly hair dusty on his arm, and her legs dangled limply by his side. The only pattern on her dirty white dress was streaks of blood.

A second man followed the first- the little boy he carried was even younger than the girl. Both the children looked dead, or close to it. Behind the men are more villagers, and some of them have burdens of their own. Too many. At least one of the mindless, undiscerning shells had landed in a school."


So there's your glorious Muqawama, bruno, doing what they do: "attacking" the MNF but blowing up a school instead. Better luck next time, eh? And there you are, doing what you do: Twisting, turning, justifying, cheerleading, and not giving a rat's *ss about the Muqawama killing civilians.

bruno: "But of course, the truth is that resistance groups have little to gain from hitting civilian targets (since the world and especially the American military don’t give a shit about dead Iraqis anyway) given that these actions will directly generate opposition to such resistance."

This is false on all counts. Briefly, in order:
* the resistance gains control over the civilians through violence and intimidation
* the world does give a sh*t about dead iraqi civilians, either genuinely so or as an engine to direct scorn at the US as you do. So the latter case definitely helps the resistance.
* the MNF definitely gives a sh*t about dead Iraqi civilians. The big point of this "surge" is to protect tehm in Baghdad so the gov't can get its legs under it, and any talk about our ROE and escalation of force shows we are trying to minimize civilian casualties.
* no, in some cases it will generate opposition, but generally the resistance is finding so much help and encouragement from domestic and international apologists & cheerleaders that they can do no wrong, especially if they do horrible and persistent wrong.

Your Muqawama, of course, could not care less about dead Iraqi civilains. The more the merrier, as far as they're concerned. You'll forgive them every single one anyway.

bruno: "Rhus has pretty much made it clear that he wants a US ‘victory’ ... at any cost."

I've made it clear that I want a US victory, but not neccessarily at any cost. The initial cost in lives was plenty high enough for me. Now it's just fanatics running up the bill, with your blessing.

Like I've told you, a US victory is an Iraqi victory. A democratic, free, independent, stable, and prosperous Iraq is a US victory. Look at Kurdistan for a model of how it can and hopefully will turn out.

RhusLancia said...

annie, if I didn't know better I'd think you're implying that I'm being paid as an info-warrior. Oh but this is good:

annie: "they infect (virus) other blogs comment sections and dominate the conversation often leaving the impression they represent a majority of the american public because they certainly take up an inordinate amount of space, totally disproportionate to the percentages in our society, fighting the 'america do or die' point of view."

Uh huh. That sounds almost like a tactic certain anti-Iraqi anti-American Imperialist Resistance Cheerleaders and Apologists would use. Kinda like a "media jihad", even.

Bruno said...

[rhus] "So there's your glorious Muqawama, bruno, doing what they do: "attacking" the MNF but blowing up a school instead."

That's funny, Rhus, What I read was an account of US soldiers who KNEW they would be attacked, taking the fight straight into an Iraqi village. Naturally, if Iraqi civilians are killed, it's all the better, since you can blame the Resistance groups. That's the whole point. Of course, we tend to forget, outside your packaged paradigm, that the US INVADED and the IRAQI PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESIST.

Course, the US would rather fight them than seek a peaceful solution. Resistance groups have repeatedly offered to stop fighting in return for a withdrawal timetable, but the US refuses point blank.

So, who is really continuing the fighting? The invader that won't leave or the Iraqi defenders that LIVE there?

Bruno said...

[rhus] "the resistance gains control over the civilians through violence and intimidation"

Specific violence, such as "I'll kill you if you collaborate", sure. Random bombings, though? Certainly not.

Of course, the USA is allowed to bomb, pillage and torture people, in your warped world because violence by the US is ALWAYS justified.

[rhus] "the MNF definitely gives a sh*t about dead Iraqi civilians."

Refer me then, to the "MNF" count of the dead Iraqis that have resulted from the invasion.

[rhus] "Your Muqawama, of course, could not care less about dead Iraqi civilains. The more the merrier, as far as they're concerned."

Except for, that's a blatant lie, since I ALREADY showed you the chart of attacks and the US forces are being attacked WAY more than Iraqis, even IF - IF - all the sectarian violence can be attributed directly to Resistance groups.

[rhus] "A democratic, free, independent, stable, and prosperous Iraq is a US victory."

That's a blatant lie, again.

The US interferes everyday with Iraqi democracy and sovereignty, overruling decisions and imposing its own agendas on them. It crushes journalistic organisations by force. It uses Saddamite legislation to smash Unions. It has looted the Iraqi treasury and fed the funds to its own companies. It has tried to do away with the basic food ration which is all that stands between life and death for many Iraqis.

I can go on all day.

An independent democratic Iraq would be Pro-Iran, anti-Israel. It would likely be friends with Syria. It would likely trade oil in Euros and not Dollars. It would have a socialist system of governance.

All of which are anathema to the US. Peddle your crap elsewhere.

RhusLancia said...

bruno: "Random bombings, though? Certainly not."

Random bombings, certainly. They put the whole population on edge, make them live in fear, make them willing to bow to the insurgents just to make the bombings stop, and of course, undermine the credibility of the elected gov't and MNF presence.

bruno: "Of course, the USA is allowed to bomb, pillage and torture people, in your warped world because violence by the US is ALWAYS justified."

No, they are not justified in doing that. But it is only pervasive in YOUR warped world.

Me: "the MNF definitely gives a sh*t about dead Iraqi civilians."

Bruno: "Refer me then, to the "MNF" count of the dead Iraqis that have resulted from the invasion."

That would prove it for you, bruno? C'mon. Why don't you show me where the Muqawama has investigated its own crimes & attrocities, changed its ROE, or appologized for ANY attacks on civilians?

me: "Your Muqawama, of course, could not care less about dead Iraqi civilains. The more the merrier, as far as they're concerned."

bruno: "Except for, that's a blatant lie, since I ALREADY showed you the chart of attacks and the US forces are being attacked WAY more than Iraqis, even IF - IF - all the sectarian violence can be attributed directly to Resistance groups."

And I've already shown you the OTHER chart that compares civilian deaths with MNF deaths. Which is to say, the MNF is attacked more, but the civilians are killed more. But don't let that slow you down in shilling for them, bruno.

bruno: "That's funny, Rhus, What I read was an account of US soldiers who KNEW they would be attacked, taking the fight straight into an Iraqi village."

That's NOT funny bruno, but what I see is a group of fanatics who lobbed a few mortars in the general direction of people who are trying to help their country. So what if they miss? You'll absolve them of responsibility anyway. Close enough for Muqawama work!

bruno: "The US interferes everyday with Iraqi democracy and sovereignty... [etc]"

The US holds the gov't accountable as they transition from dictatorship to sovereignty/occupation, to independence. Just like Nazi Germany, just like Japan. It's a transition period, and given the bruno-supported counter-current of chaos and instability, as well as the old ways of self-serving exploitative rule, the US help is needed at the moment.

bruno: "An independent democratic Iraq would be Pro-Iran, anti-Israel. It would likely be friends with Syria. It would likely trade oil in Euros and not Dollars. It would have a socialist system of governance.

All of which are anathema to the US. Peddle your crap elsewhere."


An independent, democratic Iraq is also a friend of the US and an enemy of terrorism, which is all we can hope for in the region. Good enough for Kurdistan; good enough for Iraq.

Kupps said...

I saw 300 and thought it kicked a$$. Granted, that it was in a mindless, leave your brains at the door kinda way, but I expected this much from the film and felt it delivered fully.

I did walk out of the cinema considering that some people would have the opinion that the film is trying to make a point about modern global politics and the current tensions between Iran/US/Britain or the Iraq occupation.

A few differences I could see between what happened in the film and what an accurate allegory would be to sum up the modern political situation would be...

1) There was no massive Iraqi army marching towards the footsteps of the United States, threatening them with invasion & subjugation. Anyone who believes this is paranoid, delusional & probably pays too much attention to Fox News.

2) The basic mathematics of the film are the opposite of the Iraq invasion. There were never 300 US soldiers against a million Iraqis. With war-spending taken into account, the figures really resemble the inverse of this.

3) King Leonidas and his men represented the ruling class and the upper echelon of the military. George Bush and his cronies do NOT go to war! The ruling classes of the US & the wealthy do not go to war! They leave this to the poor, the unskilled & the uneducated, whilst they remain at home, miles from any danger and miles from any of the discomfort & horror.

If a film in the style of 300 was to be made that would attempt to accurately portray the Iraqi occupation, it would feature a rabble of an army with the best equipment and fancy war toys that money could buy, marching halfway around the planet to subjugate, suppress and control another culture & that culture's resources for its own profit, all the while droning on & on the mindless rhetoric of peace, freedom and democracy.

I say enjoy the mindless action of 300. Enjoy the film's style. Enjoy the film's effects. Enjoy the war cries of Leonidas and his men...and don't think too much about it!

Peace!

annie said...

annie, if I didn't know better I'd think you're implying that I'm being paid as an info-warrior.

lol, if you didn't know better!! that's rich. the day i start reading 1000's of posters identifying themselves as paid bloggers for the empire is the day i will think you may be other. we know they are here, all around us because it's been announced straight from the mouth of rummy, reported repeatedly in the msm..washington post, the nyt, and several other msm sources.ADVERTIZED and RECRUITED on the israeli foriegn affairs office website..yet viola....obviously they disguise themselves because i have yet to see any evidence of even one propaganda infor warrior for the empire identifying himself!!!


Uh huh. That sounds almost like a tactic certain anti-Iraqi anti-American Imperialist Resistance Cheerleaders and Apologists would use. Kinda like a "media jihad", even.


and your source for this dribble??? iraqi slogger?? excuse me for noy being impressed when i google the text and find only ONE source ... none other than MEMRI!!!!

spare me. i am totally unimpressed when you use a source widely for exactly what it is (via wikipedia)

* Pro-Israel Bias and Agenda

Brian Whitaker, the Middle East editor for the UK Guardian newspaper, has criticized MEMRI for allegedly having a pro-Israel bias and agenda, and not being explicit about this on the Web site. He has written, "My problem with Memri is that it poses as a research institute when it's basically a propaganda operation",[3] that material selected by MEMRI for translation, "further the political agenda of Israel, and ",[6] and that, "MEMRI's website does not mention you [Carmon] or your work for Israeli intelligence. Nor does it mention MEMRI's co-founder, Meyrav Wurmser, and her extreme brand of Zionism ... Given your political background, it's legitimate to ask whether MEMRI is a trustworthy vehicle"

Hussein Ibish, a spokesman for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee comments that "MEMRI performs a useful function but unfortunately they have a pro-Israel, right-wing agenda."[7]


the fact that the only source repeating this propaganda for memri is iraqi slogger degrades sloggers reputation.

you take us for fools???

nadia n said...

I'm curious about what you thought of Babel.

RhusLancia said...

me: "annie, if I didn't know better I'd think you're implying that I'm being paid as an info-warrior."

annie: "lol, if you didn't know better!! that's rich. the day i start reading 1000's of posters identifying themselves as paid bloggers for the empire is the day i will think you may be other."

So that's a "yes"? I'm just asking for my own amusement. I saw you take a similar track with "K" on BT's blog.

me, re: annie's attempt to manage the message: "Uh huh. That sounds almost like a tactic certain anti-Iraqi anti-American Imperialist Resistance Cheerleaders and Apologists would use. Kinda like a "media jihad", even."

annie, attempting to manage the message: "and your source for this dribble??? iraqi slogger?? excuse me for noy being impressed when i google the text and find only ONE source ... none other than MEMRI!!!!"

Well I can only guess at your motivations for where, how, and what you post. Seems to, ummm, follow a strong and predictable agenda though, annie.

annie: "you take us for fools??? "

Who said "us"?

Now run along, annie. Somewhere there are Muqawama killing innocents, and they need someone to cheerlead for them.

annie said...

Now run along, annie.

lol, you wish! the truth will reveal all your many lies.

Seems to, ummm, follow a strong and predictable agenda though, annie.

damn straight. exposing propaganda tools like memri w/rightwing agendas trying to pass themselves off as merely a "Middle East Media Research Institute" is one of them.

go complain to the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee for outing them. do you have a problem w/this group's "agenda"??

lol, you go run along to your master for further instructions. your 'rats ass' and 'caring' lingo are really convincing.. lol, not.

annie said...

PS

i believe in free speech, so i accept that memri has an agenda. i do however think it is deceptive as a member of the media not to expose it. let's take a look into the mind of the moving force behind memri...

bbc

Meyrav Wurmser is an expert in the Middle East and part of a neo-conservative family.

Her husband David is special assistant to Undersecretary of State John Bolton and a member of the American Enterprise Institute.

She is, along with a former Colonel in Israeli intelligence, the co-founder of a charity which monitors the Arab media for anti-semitic opinions.

Mrs Wurmser was among a group of neo-conservatives who wrote a report intended as advice for the then incoming Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996.

The report, called "Rebuilding Zionism" called for a clean break with the Middle East peace processand talked about "rolling back Syria".



It also spoke about removing Saddam Hussein from power.

Other signatories of that report included Richard Perle, David Wurmser and Douglas Feith - who is now number three at the Pentagon.


you are familiar w/A Clean Break : A New Strategy for Securing the Realm i would assume???

a kind of US-Israeli neoconservative manifesto" ...

"a mini-cold war in the Middle East, advocating the use of proxy armies for regime changes, destabilization and containment. Indeed, it even goes so far as to articulate a way to advance right-wing Zionism by melding it with missile-defense advocacy."

...

advocating that Israel pursue a combination of roll-back, destabilization and containment in the region, including striking at Syria and removing Saddam Hussein from power in favor of 'Hashemite control in Iraq.'


A clean break is widely recognized as the '96 document advocating for the invasion of iraq. it just so happened to been written for Netanyahu by a "Study Group on a New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000."

something that was not presented to the american public by memri or the msm in the lead up to the war when we were told saddam had connections to AQ and wmd's.

why would that be? israel is in the middle east? certainly this information was available in the media in israel? if not, why?

this is the source ?

predictable, could you at the least surprise me, even once?

RhusLancia said...

Wow, annie, that's a lot of effort to discredit memri. Very interesting that you would go to all the trouble. Interesting indeed. I guess if you wanted to assess if that was a true story or not, you could go here:

http://www.mohajroon.com/vb/showthread.php?t=48233

and login and check it out for yourself. If you know arabic, that is.

But anyway, it's fun to watch your fur fly at the mere mention of your cheerleading for the resistance being part of an organized effort. The story could be as false as Rosie's theory of 9/11 but your behavior still fits a certain agenda-driven pattern.

annie said...

fur fly?

jeez rhus we've only shared about a zillion posts refuting eachother, what's so different about this one?

i think i have totally communicated my distain for all things neocon agenda driven repeatedly.

i spend the same amount of every effort on all my posts, generally they just spill right out.

what exactly is your point. i hold a special place on my shit list for propaganda outfits that operate as anti arab media sites and promote islamofascist speech. you got a problem w/that? mix that w/the wife of a known neocon and i'd say that is a pretty deadly cocktail.

agenda-driven pattern.

excuse me?? of course i have an agenda. hello!!

RhusLancia said...

annie: "i think i have totally communicated my distain for all things neocon agenda driven repeatedly.
...
excuse me?? of course i have an agenda. hello!!"


I know, and if you narrowly focus on that, you drift perilously into "blind rage", where your perceptions are so filtered that any number of fairy tales or conspiracy theories become plausible... and welcome.

annie said...

speak for yourself rhus, you don't know me

RhusLancia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RhusLancia said...

annie: "speak for yourself rhus, you don't know me"

I only know you by what you write. Maybe in person you're reasonable, but I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

amazingly, I disagree with the hole propaganda thing because most normal people don't go watch a movie where 300 men kill 10,000 men and talk about how it was political. You see, I just happen to have balls and I thought that movie was and allways will be my favorite movie. Now, if you want a political movie with some propaganda in it, go see Fahrenheit 9/11;.

Anonymous said...

It sucked. I was disappointed. Maybe its just me, I don't like looking at naked men or something, and tossing in mutants is something you only see in Troma films. I am a victim of hype and got suckered into watching it, well at least 2/3 of it before I shut off my bluray player.

Coach Factory said...

nike free, air max, oakley sunglasses, tory burch outlet, michael kors outlet, chanel handbags, michael kors outlet, oakley sunglasses, louis vuitton handbags, coach factory outlet, longchamp outlet, ray ban sunglasses, louboutin, kate spade handbags, louboutin shoes, true religion outlet, prada outlet, louis vuitton outlet, longchamp handbags, burberry outlet, louboutin outlet, tiffany and co, nike shoes, louis vuitton, jordan shoes, true religion jeans, michael kors outlet, coach outlet store online, coach outlet, burberry outlet, kate spade outlet, gucci outlet, michael kors outlet, polo ralph lauren outlet, louis vuitton outlet stores, michael kors outlet, louis vuitton outlet, air max, ray ban sunglasses, polo ralph lauren outlet, coach purses, true religion jeans, longchamp handbags, oakley sunglasses cheap, christian louboutin shoes, michael kors outlet, prada handbags

Coach Factory said...

chi flat iron, reebok outlet, marc jacobs, canada goose jackets, lululemon outlet, valentino shoes, bottega veneta, ugg boots, canada goose, asics running shoes, canada goose, moncler, rolex watches, ugg, instyler, ferragamo shoes, birkin bag, air max, moncler outlet, north face outlet, soccer jerseys, north face jackets, beats by dre, canada goose, p90x, new balance shoes, hollister, jimmy choo outlet, ugg australia, timberland boots, ghd, uggs outlet, celine handbags, canada goose outlet, iphone 6 cases, baseball bats, babyliss pro, ugg boots, nfl jerseys, herve leger, mont blanc, giuseppe zanotti, wedding dresses, mcm handbags, moncler, insanity workout, ugg pas cher, canada goose uk, soccer shoes, moncler

Coach Factory said...

ray ban sunglasses, nike free, michael kors, vans shoes, ray ban pas cher, hollister, sac louis vuitton, sac louis vuitton, nike roshe run, nike roshe run, abercrombie and fitch, nike blazer, new balance pas cher, nike air max, nike roshe, nike free pas cher, barbour, oakley pas cher, louboutin, louis vuitton uk, hollister, vanessa bruno, nike huarache, hogan outlet, sac guess, polo lacoste, lululemon, north face, air force, timberland, nike trainers, ralph lauren, mac cosmetics, converse pas cher, polo ralph lauren, mulberry, longchamp, hollister, vans pas cher, longchamp, michael kors pas cher, north face, louis vuitton, sac hermes, michael kors, sac longchamp, air max, abercrombie and fitch, nike tn, sac burberry