As you know, some confused soldier has made Bush apologize for Dolkat Ra'ees Wuzaaraa al-Maliki because he turned a Quran into target practice.
How about some more practical uses of Quran in daily life?
This guy protests Iranian theocracy by Qur'an burning, okay, but then comes the "Iraqi" Bloggers Central - who think that Layla Anwar (a blogosphere synonym for Rabid) is the perfect definition of what an Iraqi should be) and they enlighten us with their supreme understanding of Arab/Muslim culture : "to light a Quran on fire is a horrendous act of blasphemy for Muslims."
Could somebody please tell the poor sods (and our brave protester) that Qur'an burning is the recommended Islamic method to dispose of a Qur'an?
40 comments:
Hey, Abbas!
Iraqi Bloggers Central: Four-Year Anniversary!
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Lol KK...So true burning IS the only way of disposing of the Quran...God, some people are so ignorant!!! But I was pretty much offended because of what that guy did. It just goes to show you, what are the different kinds of breed that are here!!! Bunch of ignorant idiots who have no clue...Thank god, I havent seen many of those around me...YET
" Dolkat Ra'ees Wuzaaraa al-Maliki"
What is that?
Ahhh you are joking , but about what exactly Abbas? You do know that that title was used since the creation of the Iraqi state , and that the man didn't invent it for himself.
You will be called the same if you became PM .
As you know, some confused soldier has made Bush apologize for Dolkat Ra'ees Wuzaaraa al-Maliki because he turned a Quran into target practice.
Double entendre perhaps?
I see you are reading Paul Bremer's book. Bruno would scold you for funneling money to him if you bought it. lol! I have't read it yet. I have decided to start from the beginning. I am currently reading "A History of the Arab Peoples" by Albert Hourani.
Btw, burning is the proper method of disposal for the US flag as well.
[Lynnette In Minnesota] Btw, burning is the proper method of disposal for the US flag as well.
That's what I was going to point out. Yet, 1) it doesn't negate the intended contempt of those in America and the Arab world who burn them. 2) Abbas's point does not mean that Rotten Gods would escape punishment in Iran for blasphemy for what he has done.
Get real, Abbas. You used to be a straight shooter. That means you said what you thought regardless of whether it would win you friends or make enemies. Yet, lately you seem only interested in scoring cheap debate points and generating contrived outrage (exhibits A & B are this post and your comment at Eye Raki).
No doubt, you'll be denouncing Danish cartoons before the year is out.
Definition of Idolatry: Ascribing magic, mystical or sacred properties to objects or places. Examples: printed copies of books, black stone, statues of the Virgin Mary, shrines of saints.
@ CMAR
uh-huh, but wait, I thought your blog said: "Burning a Quran is considered a horrendous act of blasephmy for all Muslims.", full stop, as if no Muslim would dare entertain the thought. Says a lot, doncha think?
Abbas,
I've always considered you a fairly smart fellow, so I'm sure that you are able to make a distinction between burning something AS A PROTEST and burning something simply as a way to get rid of old items, right?
Do you think those Iranians who have burned thousands of US flags over the last almost thirty years explain their actions by suggesting that they are just using the approved method of getting rid of old flags?!
Abbas, c'mon. You CAN'T be saying that, right?
Burning a Koran AS A PROTEST against Islam and burning a Koran just to get rid of an unwanted copy are certainly actions that have very different underlying motivations even though the Koran burns the same way in each case (the Koran submits to the laws of physics -- certainly higher than Koranic law, one might say).
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[Abbas] uh-huh, but wait, I thought your blog said: [blah blah blah] as if no Muslim would dare entertain the thought. Says a lot, doncha think?
Umm...it says absolutely nothing except that you have a difficulty wrapping your mind around CONTEXT.
For example, if chose to ignore the lame point you are trying to make in this post, I would think you are an ignorant fool is is unaware that for Rotten Gods to burn a Koran in the way he has could get him imprisoned for decades, executed, or murdered. I would think you knew nothing about what the true, real life reaction that observant Muslims would have to Rotten Gods's act.
But I know you know all that. You are only trying to make a cheap, irrelevant debate point. You were right to put a "stupidity" label on this post. But remember: "The problem with pretending that you are stupider than you really are is that most often you will succeed."
Something you might not know is that IBC doesn't have an "official position" about anything so far as I'm aware. The individual contributors speak for themselves. The decision to make someone a contributor is made solely by Jeffrey and no one else is consulted or made aware of the criteria.
[IBC] who think that Layla Anwar (a blogosphere synonym for Rabid) is the perfect definition of what an Iraqi should be)
I'd be very surprised if you could prove this...unless perhaps Rhus has made an *extremely qualified* nod to her in some blog's comments. I'm sure *I* have never said this.
...on the other hand, Layla Anwar says exactly what comes to her scrambled little brain without deliberately distorting information just to make a cheap shot. There's no doubt she actually BELIEVES the crap she says. Even when she rails against IBC (you two are womb siblings as far as that goes) she rails against us individually. That's definitely an improvement over certain bloggers I could name (ahem). [looking non-chalantly around Abbas's blog]
Something you might not know is that IBC doesn't have an "official position" about anything so far as I'm aware. The individual contributors speak for themselves.
This is true. The four Amigos of IBC -- me, CMAR II, Mister Ghost, and RhusLancia -- are in fact FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE -- What?! -- with different views on a wide range of topics.
Holy Differential Analysis, Batman!
Of course, we do agree on some issues. For example, both CMAR II and I think that Pete Seeger is a folkie fascist.
Heh heh.
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lately you seem only interested in scoring cheap debate points
you are kidding me right? you mean w/comments like this:
should show some respect to other people's views
is that your idea of generating contrived outrage? are you guys totally clueless? you call yourself iraqi bloggers central but you should call yourself 'iraqi bloggers nemesis' or antagonizer. you are in a constant competition to be the definers of what is or is not appropriate thought. publishing that antagonistic interview was insulting and embarrassing even to read it. no different the the propaganda used to invade iraq. may their be some truth? yes, but this is not the point. it creates fitna and yu know it. you try to direct the flow, raise the level, divert from peace to pick the scab.
nobody is celebrating you on your anniversary of psyops.
No doubt, you'll be denouncing Danish cartoons before the year is out.
oh, you mean the way each and every criticism of zionist policy is denounced as anti semite? can you even imagine had that contest been cartoon characters of jewish stereotypes there would have been laws installed preventing this! this is just one example!
what godly reason would a newspaper in denmark no less make a friggin contest to blasphamize islam?
do you think it just maybe might have anything to do w/the islam obsession of our war mongers.
can we all take a breath and just imagine not all the problems in the world have to do w/islam.
seriously, there is something completely uncivilized the way an entire movement has been developed around demonizing islam. i am sick of it. can you imagine if people blamed christianity or judaism for the insanely gross genocidal path we have been following just because those leading us identify themselves as such.
IBC doesn't have an "official position" about anything so far as I'm aware.
why don't you go dig yourselves a deeper hole. each and everyone of you. abbas has the PERFECT label for this diary and the perfect response. you are stupid if you think you can bait response w/your insults. the only people dumpster diving into the cheap, irrelevant context is IBC.
the only people dumpster diving into the cheap, irrelevant context is IBC.
should have read the only people dumpster diving into the cheap, irrelevant context around here is IBC.
this insulting behavior is beginning to define the entire pro war crowd everything rah rah america crowd.
why don't you go post some photos of half clothed women on your 'psyops team continuall insults iraqi bloggers' site.
iraqi bloggers central my ass.
swamp-woman,
You know you're supposed to stay on Omar's comments page. Scurry back now.
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you try to direct the flow, raise the level, divert from peace to pick the scab.
Gads! That's a lot of miscegenated metaphors.
the way each and every criticism of zionist policy is denounced as anti semite? can you even imagine had that contest been cartoon characters of jewish stereotypes there would have been laws installed preventing this!
Someone is campaigning to run one of Layla Anwar's half-dozen blogs. Sorry. The position has been filled.
can you even imagine had that contest been cartoon characters of jewish stereotypes there would have been laws installed preventing this!
hello!!! anyone check out germany's laws lately? i am hardly exaggerating.
wnat to have some fun guys? how about judging christians and christianity on this guy? (go ahead, watch the video. it is on huffington post so it's gone mainstream )
there are fruitcakes in every religion. or haven't you noticed?
swamp-woman
lol, coming from you jeffrey this is a massive compliment! i will wear it as my badge of honor.
Gads! That's a lot of miscegenated metaphors.
i love learning new words.
Miscegenation.
oookay! lol. i totally see what you mean (not)
how are all the wellwishers over at your den of inequity?
Sorry, people. Usually Haloscan is very reliable, but obviously it's on the fritz today.
riggggght. i guess that is why all those bloggers who couldn't survive w/out you aren't dropping by to cheer you on.
over and out.
CMAR II,
Yet, 1) it doesn't negate the intended contempt of those in America and the Arab world who burn them.
No, certainly not. You have to look at the intent behind any action. But I would speculate that the intent of US flag burning in the ME is more contempt than flag burning in the US, which is more protest. The second group of people have a greater chance of changing US policy, because they are US citizens. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't feel respect for their country. Aaargh! You've gotten me to defend all those wacky leftists.
2) Abbas's point does not mean that Rotten Gods would escape punishment in Iran for blasphemy for what he has done.
Again, agreed. If I were a protester I would feel safer burning a flag in the US than the Koran in Iran.
I haven't had a chance to read that interview with Rotten Gods yet. I was catching up on some of IBC's other posts earlier today, but ran out of time. I'll check back.
Abbas,
In that book I mentioned earlier the author suggests that the wearing of hijab or an abbaya predates Islam. Which would suggest that it is more of a cultural thing that was made into a religious thing later. So one wonders why it was originally conceived of?
Another interesting point he made was that while there were certainly communities of Christians and Jews living within the ME, once Islam came into being they were charged a poll tax among other things. He suggests that for many people converting to Islam was the easier choice, rather than continue in a second class citizen type of arrangement.
Any comments?
Thank you for telling me about Rottengods. This gave me something to write about today at my blog.
I note that people who refer to Quran do not put a "The" in front of it. This is curious to me, since The Bible seldom appears without a The in front. Is this a part of Arabic that I do not understand?
chamblee54
I understand the context just fine, but my point is that this guy, who is clearly trying to shock us with the unthinkable, should have chosen some other method as burning the Quran is anything but unthinkable, Muslims do it all the time. I was egged on to say so by the holier-than-thou confidence of the statement: "Burning a Quran is considered a horrific bla bla bla" and not by what he does.
But anyway, I digress, I am just an Iraqi so my feeble attempts at understanding the cosmos would always need the enlightenment of your all-knowing awesomeness.
Abbas,
But anyway, I digress, I am just an Iraqi so my feeble attempts at understanding the cosmos would always need the enlightenment of your all-knowing awesomeness.
See? That wasn't so hard, was it? Just acknowledge our multi-level and multi-dimensional mastery of the universe, from the technological to the metaphysical, and you'll be fine.
Yes, I'm grinning, Abbas.
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cmar ya 7maar,
Layla Anwar is the perfect example of an Iraqi Arab woman. We should all be proud of her and her writings. I consider her blog to be part of the Iraqi National Resistance. Daring to speak the truth is harder than actually picking up a gun.
And who exactly are you? And what right do you have to attack an Iraqi woman and call her "rabid"? Daring to speak the truth is rabid? inta arabi? iraqi? walak ya chalb ya gawad you do not speak to an Iraqi woman that you ya nathil.
Ya konfused ibn al barbooga, Layla has more balls than you and your asheera. If more Iraqis were like her, Iraq would not be the state it's in. You pimply pubescent wanking moron, besides playing pool and "checking out babes" and masturbating on your pillow, you do shit but spew your usual garbage. haqeer ibn al haqeera. just let me see you in amman and I will smash that spotty face of yours. walak ya jaban ya khasees you hide behind a computer and insult an Iraqi woman? yal3an abuk 3ala abul nafathak.
I understand the context just fine, but my point is that this guy, who is clearly trying to shock us with the unthinkable, should have chosen some other method as burning the Quran is anything but unthinkable, Muslims do it all the time.
Well, perhaps he'll move on to shooting it. Or maybe he'll toss it in a toilet. It's a shame all the Christians around the world who will have to be murdered because he did that.
But, since his act was not so shocking, I'm sure Rotten Gods will face no harm for the act if his identity is discovered by his government, right? And you were bequeathed this special power of logical analysis because of the accident of your birth in Iraq? Remind me to stay out of Iraqi maternity wards.
Apparently you yourself are missing the context of my own post:
"This guy protests Iranian theocracy by Qur'an burning"
and then I said:
"Okay."
if we review English language grammar, it means that I meant to say: "Fair enough, no big deal."
But then I mention my main gripe, and it is your mind-boggling mastery of Arab-Muslim culture, incidentally, I am born in an Arab-Muslim culture, so that must give me a few pointers about that thing.
as for Mr. Long Live Iraq, well, I appreciate your offer to cap those zits in my faec, if you are in Amman perhaps we can make an appointment, I usually play pool at Maramara Hall in Gardens St, you can come there, play a few matches, then we'll eat from the nearby Jabri and then I'll take you up on your geneours offer.
Winner gets to masturbate over the other's face. :D
abbas hawazin
walak ya ibn al gahba, you think Im joking? walak ana arabi min al urdun and I know every street and every corner of that city. I grew up in Amman and lived all my life in amman exept when I went to Iraq for a few years when Iraq was still free, Arab and ruled by the patriotic Iraqis, the comrades of al-rais al-shaheed.
This is not a game on the computer. I will find you in amman, but if I do nobody will ever see you again.
This is a friendly piece of advice. Do not fuck with me or any Iraqi patriot man or woman. I am a member of a very large tribe in Jordan, and you know what that means. I can make you dissapear and nobody can touch me. Careful. You do not want to fuck with any of our Iraqi brothers or sisters. al iraqiyeen al asliyeen taj rasna w b'nishrab dam ili bigrabhum. Do not think you are hiding. Bajeebak min huthn umak ya ibn al gahbi.
"If more Iraqis were like her, Iraq would not be the state it's in."
No, Iraq would still be led by a mass murderer-dictator and his filthy rapist-murderer sons. Iraqis would be tortured and murdered, and the mainstream media wouldn't pay attention, cuz Iraq wouldn't be occupied by infidels, and the Arabs from Amman, Damascus, and Riyadh would be happy. But your heroes (the Ba3thi bitches) have been defeated, because ALLAH WILLED IT.
Maybe your brave resistance should stop killing Iraqis, if you want the occupation to end.
So "long live Iraq " is a jordanian angry for the palestenian blogger Anwar because he thinks the FALSE iraqi Abbas disrespectedd her mmmmmmmmm
Am really confused here , who are the REAL IRAQIS?
There is also the possibility that Long live and Anwar are the same nice person .
Am sorry Abbas for all that obscenity , i hope it didn't ruin your day.
I am a member of a very large tribe in Jordan, and you know what that means. I can make you dissapear and nobody can touch me.
Sounds familiar, only it went like this:
I am a member of a very large tribe in Iraq, and you know what that means. I can make you dissapear and nobody can touch me.
And remember what happened to that guy? :D
Lynnette,
And remember what happened to that guy? :D
Ha ha!
Yes, HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED to him.
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long live iraq,
Do Jordan a favor. Do the world a favor. Go cut your own throat.
Abbas, you said:
"This guy protests Iranian theocracy by Qur'an burning"
and then I said..."Fair enough, no big deal." But then I mention my main gripe, and it is your mind-boggling mastery of Arab-Muslim culture, incidentally, I am born in an Arab-Muslim culture, so that must give me a few pointers about that thing.
Rotten Gods was also born in a Muslim culture...in some ways a far more Muslim saturated culture than you. But instead of attacking him for his method of protest, you chose to act as though MISTER GHOST had invented the protest and that (being the authority on Muslim culture that you are) the theocratic authorities of Iran would have no problem with it.
You did this to launch a pitiful ad hominem attack on M. Ghost. No! You did it to launch a pitiful ad hominem attack on IBC as though it were a group interview.
Why link to any actual IBC post at all if you are just going to play the ass with this degree of logical disconnect to the post? Why not just say "IBC posted today. Gee whiz, those guys are jerks."?
are you really so clueless cmar?
abbas said I am born in an Arab-Muslim culture, so that must give me a few pointers about that thing.
this was in reference to YOU and the idiots @ibc
Rotten Gods was also born in a Muslim culture
so what? this just proves the trumped up "horrendous act" blathering was designed for idiots, not anyone familiar w/muslim culture. it is for propaganda purposes.
You did this to launch a pitiful ad hominem attack on M. Ghost.
if you are too clueless to understand what tools you are, so be it. abbas did not launch an attack. he thumbed his nose at you on your anniversary. take your lumps like a big boy.
I will find you in amman, but if I do nobody will ever see you again.
please, can we not have these kinds of threats? there are other ways to live, to argue, to solve problems. especially after just hearing about the horrible news of another iraqi blogger (and NO, i am not talking about the honor killing of the pro right wing pro war pro occupation lap dog steven vincent who everybody and their brother knows was not killed for 'investigating' the death squads because everybody and their brother knows the month before that story had already been broken and the journalist (Yasser Salihee) killed by an american sniper. besides, since when is a rabidly pro occupation 'investigator' going to research a story about death squads run by american allies, until it somehow can be used in their propaganda, which wasn't for another year or something.)
anyway, back to my point. threats of revenge meant to silence don't work as well as the other parts of your argument. insulting anwar is counter productive. she is an extremely valuable iraqi voice of iraqi resistance, iraqi patriotism, iraqi womans strength, and a literary talent unmatched in the iraqi blogisphere. arguably one of the strongest female voices on the web, of any nationality. whether one agrees with everything she says or not. you should be proud of this iraqi voice abbas. choose your battles, your enemies, and your allegiances wisely. if i had to aliegn myself w/anwar or the scum at IBC, i wouldn't have to blink an eye. certainly one can insult ibc w/out dragging anwar into the post. they are beneath her and any/every iraqi patriot.
annie,
being a patriot is fine, hell, you can be a Saddamist, I don't mind, it's just that, i grew up hearing the sort of xenophobic, demagogic railings that are tinted with curse words and insults that compose the gist of Baathist propaganda, if that sort of savagery counts as being a true Iraqi, then no wonder why it is so fucked up. I have an opinion that Iraqis are able to express their viewpoint, whatever it may be, without descending into this pandemonium of hateful insanity. (Riverbend, for example, is great.)
thanks for responding. i understand your reluctance but i cannot personally relate to it. perhaps because i am unfamiliar w/the version of propaganda you grew up with. also, i don't hold those whose lives and country have been destroyed and ripped apart to the same standard of decorum or politeness i might judge others. on one's personal blog one should be able to rant and rave w/honesty. i cannot even begin to imagine what it must be like to know my people are being murdered day in and day out. it is reasonable and rational to blame vigorously. how many victims are silent? in fear? incapable? stifled?
riverbend.. incredibly talented indeed. nobody will be making a broadcast about layla anwar on bbc this decade. grief is a powerful emotion and history treats women w/composure more gently. but mark my words, the woman you are scorning will go down in history and not just as an iraqi victim of america's wars of aggression. as you mature (i can say , you are my sons age, no patronizing intended) you may grow to appreciate the depth of her (arab woman's voice). her rage is astoundingly acceptable under the circumstance, hers is a timeless voice. thoughts in red..
When I say so much blood, I mean daily blood...DAILY.DAILY.DAILY. Human blood sacrificed at some altar, and am still trying to figure out the God that presides over it.
Is it the God of Globalization, the God of America, the God of Judea and Samarea, the God of Babylon, the God of Mecca or the God of Jerusalem...?
Which God is it that demands so much blood? But most importantly why Arab (muslim) Blood ? What kind of vampire lives off Muslim Blood ? And does blood have a race or an ethnicity or even a religion ? It's all Red to me...
OK take that as FACT - All Blood is RED. Yellow, Black, White, Colored...it's all RED.
Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhists, Pagan, Animist, Atheist, Agnostic...It's all RED.
So what makes one blood cheaper than another ? What makes one life cheaper than another ?
what abbas? why is your blood cheaper than mine?
descending into this pandemonium of hateful insanity?
life isn't fair, some women pull their hair out. others suffer in silence. layla is not insane, quite the opposite.
be well and stay safe.
Well, I would like to defend myself on a couple of points.
My point about the Quran burning being an act of blasphemy was in the context of it being burned.
They, Rotten Gods are doing it as an act of desecration against the Quran and Islam.
The proper way to dispose of a flag is to burn it too, but if you are burning it in public (or otherwise) in protest, it holds a different connotation all together, and is offensive to many; an act of desecration to many.
I tend to feel, that people should be imbued with enough civil liberties to be able to protest in such a way, having civil liberties that are lacking in places as Iran, and Iraq of the past and present.
Strangely enough, if the Iranian regime catches the Rotten Gods, they are not going to see it as the proper way to dispose of the Quran, rather as an attack against their interpretation of Islam.
Abbas if you don't think it is an act of blasphemy, go to Sadra City and have a Quran bonfire. Torch off a few hundred of them, show pictures on your website, and rail against Sharia law. And post your email address and invite comments. See, if they think it is a proper way to dispose of Qurans.
Also, as Rotten Gods pointed out in the In T View, Muslims have threatened them for what they have
done - if it is not considered blasphemous, why the threats? They are angry because the Rotten Gods are desecrating the Quran. Well, other than being cranky fundamentalist Muslims. LOL.
Any ways, I knew that In T View would provoke some interesting responses. Provoking is good.
And Rotten Gods, you have to give them credit for dissenting in Iran, where the penalty is death at times. Dissent is important.
How many of you Iraqi bloggers had the cojones to dissent during Saddam's time when there was a harsh penalty to be paid. Most of you were nice little cogs in the Baathist Caliphate. You may have not been pulling out tongues like members of Mukbaharat, but you had
no problem living in the cradle to grave welfare system. Free education, LOL, dirty money, which you all took advantage of. You were all part of the system, whether you want to admit it or not.
As far as Layla, ah ha, I knew that
statement about her not being a bigot would be questioned by people.
Well, that was a toughie to put Layla in her proper context.
But I will say she, like a lot of Iraqis, have deeply ingrained prejudices.
Would anyone disagree that Iraqis have deeply ingrained prejudices?
LOL.
If she is a Bigot then most of Iraqis are bigots. Maybe they are.
The Iraqis in the last 60 years have basically run out all the minorities (non Kurds, but then they have their own state) from the country. The Iraqi Christians are heading the way of the Jews, who at one time formed 1/3 of Baghdad's population in the early 20th century, and now there are about 5 there today, and there is no Christian version of Israel being formed in the Middle East to use as a lame excuse this time.
It's eerie, the same curses uttered against the Jews 70 years ago, such as collaborators, are the same mouthed against the Christians of today.
The tormentors don't change in Iraq, only those they torment.
And coming soon, so that you Iraqis will remember all the Jews you ran out of the country, The Babes of Israel: The Hottest Women in the Middle East.
When done a certain way, and with a certain intent, burning is also an acceptable way to dispose of a human body. When done in other ways and with other intentions, it can be horrific, insulting, or an intentional desecration. Right?
CMAR II said...
[IBC] who think that Layla Anwar (a blogosphere synonym for Rabid) is the perfect definition of what an Iraqi should be)
I'd be very surprised if you could prove this...unless perhaps Rhus has made an *extremely qualified* nod to her in some blog's comments. I'm sure *I* have never said this.
I don't think I've put it exactly that way. I know I have said and do consider her to be an excellent example of the kind of rabidity that infests some Iraqis, most notably the old guard, as well as the often-rabid opponents of the new Iraq. Many Iraqis consider Saddam's days to be better than now, OK (to use an Abbas-ism), but she has made no bones about liking even the very worst of Saddam's crimes against the Iraqi people. Look at "Long Live Iraqi D*ckh**ds" and "Annie the Paid TACbot" for examples of her equally sick-minded supporters. I don't think you disagree with this, Abbas, do you? Please read this post for a decent example.
Abbas, fate, circumstances, and intentions may never allow us to meet face to face. However, if I did meet you in Jordan or Arizona or anywhere I can guaran-goshdarn-tee you this: a) I would consider it an honor and a priviledge and b) you would survive the encounter, unless a piano fell on our heads or similar.
This goes for whether you agree with me on anything or not.
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