Tuesday, May 27, 2008

R.I.P. BlogIraq

In general, back-and-forth intra-blog discussions don't end up with a positive outcome, they are filled with long arguments that are hard to follow, and both sides will stubbornly stick to their side no matter what, however, for the benefit of the general population I would respond to Iraqi Bloggers Central's recent post, which was in itself a response to my earlier mockery of their supposedly all-encompassing knowledge of Muslim culture.

Mister Ghost, in a swashbuckling-ly glorious representation of American values of freedom and glory against the deep darkness of Islamic bigotry, starts with a big slice of bigotry hismelf: "I would like to defend myself against a couple of points by the deep-thinking but Iraqi-flawed Abbas." As if being "Iraqi" in itself is a disadvantage to the logical circuits of one's mental processes.

He still doesn't get my point, my post wasn't really an objection towards Quran-burning or whatever Rotten Gods is doing, even though regular Muslims might find it appalling, just as regular Christians would find Bible burning the same, I was only mocking his smug all-knowing attitude towards Arab-Muslim culture, which he clearly finds of no particular use to mankind.

Then, he condescendingly outlines White Man's superiority over mainstream sandniggers Iraqis, including:

a) That all Iraqis were cowardly cogs inside the Baathist Caliphate. Mister Ghost, who has lived all his easy, comfortable life somewhere so removed from pain and suffering, has no real understanding of those concepts at all, he has no ability to understand that human beings might act differently in other environments, I wonder what Mister Ghost would have done if he was born and raised in as a German in Hitler-era Germany, or a Russian in Stalin's Russia, or an Iraqi in Baathist Iraq, the latter was nothing like present-day Iran, or Jordan, or Egypt (where people are actually trying to act up, btw), a country where you, your father, your entire family would be executed for the simplest joke. I don't think Mister Ghost would have acted anyway different, he would still rather live and make ends meet.

b) "Would anyone disagree that Iraqis have deeply-ingrained prejudices? LOL" That statement alone made me wonder about how old Mister Ghost actually is. How different are Iraqis from Germans, Americans, Russians, South Africans, Chinese, Tibetans in terms of having prejudices? He pontificates further:


c) Iraqis are expelling Christians. Funny, what does "Iraqis" here mean? it's as if not a single Muslim is being killed or deported in Iraq. What is the difference between Muslim expulsion death and Christian expulsion? Apparently, in the eyes of Mister Ghost, only Christian expulsion is worthy of attention.

d) That we are calling Christians "collaborators" and are expelling just like we did to the "Jews", here, Mister Ghost falls in several problems: first, I have never heard one Iraqi calling a Christian a "collaborator", actually, before I came to Amman, my pretty religious family's neighbor was an Iraqi Priest with his family, my mother (who wears a jubba) sent them a cake on Christmas and my brother and sister frequently played with their children, they got along with them much better than our current Iraqi Muslim neighbors, how is that for being flawed with terrible prejudices?
Also, he conveniently ignores the fact that Iraqi Jews were pretty much living quite the same as everyone else in Iraq until the state of Israel was born, i.e. the expulsion had a logical reason - not to mention that Jews were treated better in the Muslim Caliphate than they were in Medieval Europe, also, many Iraqi Jews actually wish to go back to Baghdad, which they miss as their true home, I would cite the Jewish author Samir Naqqash as an example. I also advise you to read some of British-Iraqi Jewish author Elie Kedourie's work.


I have called Layla Anwar a bigot previously, I apologize terribly, if she is a bigot, then at least she is direct and honest about it, and like I said about the whole Wafa Sultan thing : bigots balance each other out.
Personally, I don't tolerate bigots, so, and while I have previously issued a fatwa against their blog, it was slightly in jest, as of today, I ban all members (although Rhuslancia wasn't really bad, but I'm sorry) from commenting at my flawed, prejudiced, cowardly blog.

45 comments:

david santos said...

Abbas,
I loved this post.
have a nice day

n said...

duder why are you even wasting your time, a grade 6 can pick apart their logic.

why the fuck would anyone incorporate laws about coran burning in iran and the exodus of minorities in iraq like they're at all related issues? why doesn't he care about the exodus of literally millions of muslims going on at the same time as well? maybe cause he's bigoted against muslims and want to keep them out the fuck out of his country? it's not like he hasn't openly said so a bunch of times.

Chuck said...

Abbas,

You wrote: "He conveniently ignores the fact that Iraqi Jews were pretty much living quite the same as everyone else in Iraq until the state of Israel was born, i.e. the expulsion had a logical reason."
.
Please enlighten me on why the expulsion of Iraqi Jews after the state of Israel had a logical reason? Hadn't they been there since the time of Nebuchadnezzar?

Abbas Hawazin said...

chuck,
I meant to say that they were turbulent times : Jews have taken a quite sizable chunk of the Arab lands and declared it their home, what do you expect?

Besides, the bombings that targeted Iraqi Jews are disputed in origin. the Iraqi jews themselves believed that it was incited by Zionists.

Muhannad said...

"what do you expect?"

I would expect Iraqis to not blame the Iraqi Jews for what European Jewish extremists did to Palestinians.

Also, Farhood al Yahood took place BEFORE the creation of Israel.

Gilgamesh X / exile - iraqi said...

Good points, Muhannad,

I would also like to add that the Assyrian Christians never ever had something to do with Zionism and Israel but albeit this they were massacred in 1933 as sign of an independent Iraq - with all these lies about spies and collaborators etc.

Minorities were tolerated as long as there was a goverment that protected them - in case of chaos or collapse like in the Farhud or now these minorities were the first victims of a "mob".

Abbas Hawazin said...

Jeffrey,

I apologize to your person, but since you endorse what Mister Ghost has written, then this ban stands. I have seen hints of this kind from your team before and have ignored them. but this is too much, I don't think arguments would do, you do your own thing and that's fine, just don't do it here, have a nice day.

n said...

Minorities were tolerated as long as there was a government that protected them

This is one of the more lucid things I've read in this thread, it also could be true of pretty much anywhere.
It's also a far cry from saying that Christians were continually persecuted for 60 years, that Iraqis as a whole think this way etc. Kurds have a much, much nastier past with respect to how they treated Christians, but I never see these generalizations made about them today.

I am all for criticism, but these things are all too fucking important to be used to legitimize somebody else's bigotry, and they are definitely being used that way, to not recognize that is equally fucked up.

Don Cox said...

"many Iraqi Jews actually wish to go back to Baghdad, which they miss as their true home"_____And do you think the Iraqis would welcome them back? They should do.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

I have called Layla Anwar a bigot previously, I apologize terribly, if she is a bigot, then at least she is direct and honest about it,...

So it's okay to be a bigot if you admit it? Sorry, Abbas, I disagree. You owe her no apology.

Jews have taken a quite sizable chunk of the Arab lands and declared it their home, what do you expect?

Exactly how large is the state of Israel? Overlooking any other considerations, I don't think I would call it a "sizable chunk of Arab lands".

Anand said...

Abbas, Good post! :-)

I agree with you regarding Mr. Ghost. I still think that he is well intentioned and will change his point of view once he understands Iraqis better.

But then, I also still hope that Muqtada reforms himself to become a better person.

Strange as it sounds, I also respect Layla. She is consistent, says what she believes without guile, and is genuine. I didn't like her at first, but she grows on you.

Abbas, check out Mojo's Dad's letter exchanges with Iraq's national security advisor Rubaie:
http://iraqimojo.blogspot.com/2008/05/introducing-iraqi-patriots.html

http://iraqipatriots.blogspot.com/2008/05/letters.html

I like Mojo's dad. He seems a lot like you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Overlooking any other considerations, I don't think I would call it a "sizable chunk of Arab lands".

I don't think that this should be the issue but
do you not consider 750,000 a sizable number of people?
Then what's an unacceptable number?

Anonymous said...

wise decision. good post. it was a long time coming.

jeffrey banned me from ibc the first time i posted, refuting the BS they were upchucking (round two) about the lancet. then they have the audacity to proclaim they encourage the widest range of views from our commenters.

another absurd allegation is they provide a forumn for 'the iraqi side' AND 'the american side' AS IF they 'represent' the 'american side' meaning most americans. their all round racist total cluelessness w/concepts such as 'Iraqi-flawed'... they don't even see, much less understand. i think you have been abundantly patient abbas, and fair. the reality is their job is psyops. it's an immovable stacked deck, you being an important cog in their wheel.

'nough said.

annie

Mayssam said...

Abbas ,
I don't agree or like everything the guys at IBC write and i think that Ghost's latest post was even worse than his " Iranian boobs" post, but I think banning them from commenting here is an exaggerated reaction , sorry to say that. You said once that there is place for everyone here , they have a place for everyone there so i don't see a problem , besides you replied .
Its your blog and am not going to tell you what to do with it but I do hope you will think about it.

Thank you.

An Italian. said...

Congratulations, Abbas !!!
Good riddance !

And I hope you'll kick out soon the nauseating Snake 'Anand' as well ...

Bruno said...

Abbas, your banning of them here is nothing more than Jeffrey et al have done to many people that challenge them at IBC. Just look at the way they ran when Annie took them on. She's not the only one.

Maybe their karma has returned itself to them through you.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Anonymous,

Lynnette: Overlooking any other considerations, I don't think I would call it a "sizable chunk of Arab lands".

Anonymous: I don't think that this should be the issue but
do you not consider 750,000 a sizable number of people?
Then what's an unacceptable number?


That was one of the "other considerations" I was referring to, and actually I think it should have been more of an issue than the land. That is, what would have helped those people displaced rebuild their lives.

Even though you have differing accounts of the cause for the displacement of the Palestinians that were living in what is now the state of Israel, an equitable recompense should have been offered to those people, and accepted by them.

The question is, was it, and if so, why was it not accepted?

Annie,

the reality is their job is psyops. referring to IBC

Annie, that is your reality. I doubt very much if Jeffrey, or IBC for that matter, are psyops. They're too far out there. What he at times appears to be doing is channeling Robin Williams in "Dead Poets Society". That is, trying to get people to think outside their little box. It doesn't make him a bigot. He just doesn't appear to understand subtlety. *sigh* Typical man.

Now I gotta zip over to 24's and congratulate him. I didn't get there yesterday.

Bruno,

Careful how you use that word "karma". Sharon Stone just got in hot water with China over that word.

Anonymous said...

an equitable recompense should have been offered...
The question is, was it?


excuse me? what world are you living in? that should not be that hard for you to assess. if that is 'the question' you don't have to look far to find out.

and if so, why was it not accepted?

you mean had palestinians been offered something to compensate them for running them off their land (AS IF something like that is replaceable which we all know there is no replacement, comparable to offering parents someone else child when theirs has been taken away or killed) then why was this offering (that was not offered) not accepted?

you don't happen to have any BIAS now do you lyn? nothing like putting the onus of blame on the victim.

What he at times appears to be doing is channeling Robin Williams in "Dead Poets Society".

oh i see this little pyops game for what it is alright.

dead poets society? English professor John Keating inspires his students to a love of poetry and to seize the day.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

yes, they would love to cast themselves in the cushy roll as the wise americans leading (inspiring) the hapless (no, make that flawed) iraqi 'students' to seize the great american way. opening new channels of communications, placing themselves and their little psyops blog smack dab in the middle of the iraqi discourse (regardless of the fact no one invited them or signed up for their little project). the self appointed 'centrality', self appointed 'moderators' self appointed 'teachers' self appointed 'voice of america rightwing pro occupation pro war'.. and you don't think they are psyops? well ms minnie, where PREY TELL is the pyops then? what role do you think they are playing if not the 'robin williams' character? besides yourself of course,anand and mayssam and the rest of the cheerleading section?

Annie, that is your reality.

damn tooten. and i got radar like no tomorrow. unless you can point me in another direction of psyops bloggers central, PBC (because we KNOW infowarfare is the wave of the future) for the pentagon.. eat your words.

mayssam You said once that there is place for everyone here , they have a place for everyone there

you aren't listening mayssam. i just told you they banned me when i posted to refute their lying post about lancet. not only that they erased my post which was laden w/links and evidence.

just in the last week they also erased numerous comments in the blogiraq thread because it wasn't going in a 'friendly' direction for them. (the supposed reason their comment section is devoid of voices other than their own is the failure of haloscan, ha!) they did however leave the (pimps) comment i posted as anonymous.

face it lyn, they (you) have been outted, they are not a helpful site other than discerning the direction the pentagon wants our focus, or what kind of degrading information iraqis are supposed to focus on today ie mister ghost's claim he was going to post some pics of The Babes of Israel: The Hottest Women in the Middle East.

the site is not without its worth for these reasons. bruno used the term karma perfectly.

have no fear, i will always be around to refute your worthless blathering.

annie

nadia n said...

Man I wish you had chosen a different title for this particular post, leave internet drama separate from that poor man, let him have some peace at least in death.

nadia n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Annie,

Look at that worthless diatribe you just indulged in. And you can't figure out why anyone would ban you, kudzu?

have no fear, i will always be around to refute your worthless blathering.

No, what you do is smother any other voice but your own with your lengthy and spamming comments. That doesn't make you right.

you mean had palestinians been offered something to compensate them for running them off their land...

And you only look at one viewpoint as usual.

you don't happen to have any BIAS now do you lyn?

If it appears that I am biased, it is only because I am responding to yours.

face it lyn, they (you) have been outted

I have been quite upfront about why I sometimes join these arguments. I can't help it if you weren't there to read my conversation with Confessions of a Malamute regarding that. Go dig through Caesar's archives. Psyops is not it.

Jeffrey said...

Bruno et al.,

Annie is the only one currently banned at IBC. In four years of blogging I have banned TWO people: Ibn Battutah and Annie. Why? Ibn Battutah was banned because he verbally abused all the women on our comments pages, calling them "cunts" and such. To me, that's crossing the line of decency. Annie is banned because I've seen her destroy comments pages with her inane attempts at writing. I simply will not allow her to post comments that people can't even figure out. She's a moron, and that's why she's banned. I won't let her kill our comments page like she did to Omar's (24 Steps).

*

Anonymous said...

And you can't figure out why anyone would ban you,

lol, since when did i ever even imply i couldn't 'figure out' why PBC banned me? you're such a strawman queen.

what you do is smother any other voice but your own

the very nature of a thread of writing contradicts your premise. this isn't a shouting contest where one can drown out other voices. anyone can read what you, me, or any poster says.


And you only look at one viewpoint as usual.


huh? what 'one viewpoint'? i ask you a question (which i noticed you ignored) to confirm YOUR statement.

you mean had palestinians been offered something to compensate them for running them off their land .... then why was this offering .... not accepted?


that is not 'a viewpoint'. it is seeking clarification of your rather absurd statement/questions. here, let's review it.

an equitable recompense should have been offered to those people, and accepted by them.

The question is, was it, and if so, why was it not accepted?


you highlight 'and accepted'. you ask again, why was it not accepted?

i think the obvious question might be exactly WHAT was offered the palestinians as compensation???

actually, if i am not mistaken the people murdered and driven off their land are ask further requirements before they are 'offered' anything, making your entire point rawwwther moot.

who exactly is smothering or stifling? you could have addressed the questions YOU initiated, for i had not addressed the issue until your comment.

speaking of worthless diatribe . do you plan on addressing the points YOU brought up (and i ask for clarification), or are you just trolling for attention?


I have been quite upfront about why I sometimes join these arguments.


lol. upfront. what exactly is the purpose of 'accepted by them' sans clarification of the offering that isn't, wasn't and if the zionist have their way, will never be which is of course the right of return or their own state on land that is their own? as the world turns and the palestinians still don't have a state israel is gobbling up more and more of land that IS NOT THEIRS, creating more and more settlements on palestinian land.

what exactly are the palestinians supposed to 'accept'?

this??, everything israel offers is somebody elses to begin with.

you think palestinians should accept money to just go away. is that what you are saying? what are you saying?

you're out of your league.

Go dig through Caesar's archives.

you're delusional. why would i ever bother to search for more of you? if anyone cares to take you seriously they are totally free to do so at any time, and completely scroll thru my posts. contrary to your allegations i have no power whatsoever to smother or silence you, but as long as you continue to grace us w/your presence i am free to point out how absurd you are.

annie

Anonymous said...

I don’t exactly see the world the way Jeffrey Goldberg does, but on these points I couldn’t agree with him more. His Sunday NYT op-ed, in a special issue looking at 60 years of Israeli independence, insisted that hope for an independent Palestinian state requires not just the ending of but the “reversal of the West Bank settlement project.” On this, pretty much the entire world, including many Israelis, agree. But why hasn’t it happened? Why isn’t the United States demanding the removal of settlements, instead of issuing half-hearted useless warnings while Israel continues to build more and more settlements each day on land that does not belong to it?

More at the link "NYT op-ed: American Jewish organizations are the obstacle to peace". from Jewish Voice for Peace

Goldberg says the problem is American Jewish organizations, who through some fantasized world of their own making, insist on taking positions to the right of even Olmert....Jews have been sold a heady mix of heroic myth-making and vicarious pride. And until now, it has worked, if you don’t actually pick up a newspaper or go to Israel and step out of the carefully scripted tours to see the complex reality. (Yes, just like the US is a much more complex reality than the one-dimensional “patriotic” pablum we are often asked to ingest.)

But Israelis don’t need “friends” who promote a fantasy-based idea of who they are and what they need. They need friends who know how to say, enough is enough. You are destroying yourselves and taking everyone with you. As Goldberg observed,

Jeffrey said...

Abbas,

Listen, I warned you about Annie a month or two ago. Trust me on this. If you let her continue commenting here, she'll drive the other commenters away with her long, poorly written, nonsensical posts on your comments page, just like she did Omar's. Check his comments page, if you like, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

*

Anand said...

Annie, you are far too deep for me. I can't even figure out what you are writing . . . or if I agree or disagree with you.

Perhaps you might consider simplifying your posts . . . so us mere mortals can better follow.

Why can't Israelis and Palestinians kiss and make up already. Maybe the world can bribe them a hundred billion bucks if they would just make up, and not talk about their problems any more . . . ever.

Anonymous said...

Annie, you are far too deep for me. I can't even figure out what you are writing

let me simplify it for you anand. try reading directly JVP's (jewish voices for peace) link to new york times editorial titled appropriately Israel’s ‘American Problem’ . if you still can't comprehend the issues..let me know. we can go thru it step by step. for starters, you may want to consider the finali..

what’s needed now is a radical rethinking of what it means to be pro-Israel. Barack Obama and John McCain, the likely presidential nominees, are smart, analytical men who understand the manifold threats Israel faces 60 years after its founding. They should be able to talk, in blunt terms, about the full range of dangers faced by Israel, including the danger Israel has brought upon itself.



too deep for you? don't skip this part..

And the best way to bring about the birth of a Palestinian state is to reverse — not merely halt, but reverse — the West Bank settlement project. The dismantling of settlements is the one step that would buttress the dwindling band of Palestinian moderates in their struggle against the fundamentalists of Hamas.

still not comprehending the NEW YORK TIMES?? try this..

. A pro-Israel president today would be one who prods the Jewish state — publicly, continuously and vociferously — to create conditions on the West Bank that would allow for the birth of a moderate Palestinian state.

still too complicated for 'mere mortals' ??

how about this anand..

But he was expansive, and persuasive, on the Zionist need for a Palestinian state. Without a Palestine — a viable, territorially contiguous Palestine — Arabs under Israeli control will, in the not-distant future, outnumber the country’s Jews.

“We now have the Palestinians running an Algeria-style campaign against Israel, but what I fear is that they will try to run a South Africa-type campaign against us,” he said. If this happens, and worldwide sanctions are imposed as they were against the white-minority government, “the state of Israel is finished,” Mr. Olmert said in an earlier interview.


too... complicated?


Why can't Israelis and Palestinians kiss and make up already.


my specialty is not the 'nonsensical' . you will have to consult someone else on this question. in the meantime try chewing on that nyt article, i swear it is written for the average IQ. take a dive into the depth of reality.

a

An Italian. said...

Dear Abbas,

why don't you do what you said you would do, and kick this abominable Rat Jeffrey Schuster (plus his repulsive reptilian sidekick 'anand') out ?

:)

Anonymous said...

i second that.

i am sorry i have not respected your decisions abbas. i never should have responded to any of them.

my apologies.

a

Iraqi Jew said...

It is funny how your knee-jerk reaction to the Iraqi Jews is to "explain" that their expulsion "had a logical reason". Of course the Jews will never be able to come home when people have thoughts similar to yours.

Anand said...

I am with Iraqi Jew !!!!

Welcome back! I was wondering where you were hanging out. Please visit us at Mojo more often.


For the record, Jews are killer cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Jews!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


{small off topic note: I don't support settlements.}

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