Wednesday, February 06, 2008

Small Note On Post Below

There are no good Shia or bad Sunnis, it's strictly politics.

An interesting analogy to understand the nature that: The recent Mahdawiya incidents in Iraq, which tried to rebel against the mainstream Shia community, have been mercilessly assaulted, wronged, oppressed and described as being 'hypnotized' and 'recruited by Arab intelligence' by the ruling government and the clergy, in more than one way ; the struggle between Mahdawiya and Shiism is a smaller version of the struggle between Sunnism and Shiism ; a large 'orthodox' group is challenged by a smaller renegade group that attacks the foundations of the orthodoxy and purports to hold divine wisdom.

We can also go completely insane and say that while The Western Judeo-Christian World rapidly progressed through all walks of life, leading in complete global worldwide domination, the Muslims lived in denial, turning inwards on their culture and themselves and have been suffering ever since, producing disastrous solutions like al-Qaeda ; in the same sense, Sunnism as a political system branched out healthily and without divine complications, confident in its rule, while the oppressed Shia lived in denial, feeding upon their own helplessness to create imaginary figures that would come back to the rescue, and eventually, when the Shia transformed from obscure and hazy revolutionary slogan into a comfortable orthodoxy with legal institutions (hawza), the poor and neglected would develop their own ideas and develop movements like those Mahdawiya. Just another fish in the food chain.

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

another excellent thought provoking post.

annie

CMAR II said...

Kid, here are some annotations on your recent posts:

[kid] I only know of Sunnis because sectarianism is quite evidently a members-only club, but I'm sure Shias are just as lovely

Except for Hezballah! This Shi'a organization is the "unity" club for Sunni and Shi'a in that they hate the Israel, the US, and the West (in that order) more than Sunni Muslims. Read Hamorabi's transformation since 2003 and you will see that as he has become increasingly enamored with the Party of God, he sounds more and more like a pro-Ba3thi blogger.

[kid] The...identification with Iraq [with secularism], for instance, the one that I talked about loving here, isn't real ; it's what I want it to be, but it isn't real, that country tried hard to bring itself into being, but it failed

Yep, yep, yep. Salam Pax came to this conclusion a couple years ago, and Ali at A Free Iraqi seems to have always understood it to be the case. Prior to 2003, American's believed the myth of Iraq's utter secularization, because they were talking to people of Iraq's ruling classes who believed in it as well.

[kid] in the same way that the Ba'athists (and Sunnis in general) view the demolition of Saddam Hussein's regime, unjust and brutal as it was, as the end of their "rightful" dominance, even if they do not admit that ;

Beware, Kid. I must now direct you to your fatwa. ;-)

[kid] Another important detail is the fact that almost all the Shia areas in the world were part of the Persian kingdom at one point or another, such as Iran, Iraq, the Gulf, and Yemen.

Well, that's a pretty safe bet since the Persian empire stretched all the way to Greece and North Africa.

[kid] why SHOULDN'T the Shiites be loyal to Iran?

Because Iraq is the one country in the world in which Shi'a Arabs are the majority...and, under those circumstances, it is the only true uncurbed Arab democracy. Shi'a Arabs probably aren't hostile to Iran. They probably aren't as suspicious of Iran's intentions as they should be. But why would they tolerate the Persians partying in THEIR backyard? You yourself have pointed out the affinity many Shi'a Arabs have for the Iraqi Pan-Arab flag. Shi'a does not equal Persian. Even if Shi'a equaled theocrat (which it doesn't), why would they be content to be ruled by a PERSIAN theocrat?

A totalitarian military-styled government: An unlikely prospect, at least in the near future, due to the lack of any independent military organization detached from political discourse

And you can thank (or detest) the dissolution of the old Iraqi Army for this. If one wants to leave behind Iraq's (& the ME's) cycles of military revolutions, it was vital to totally uproot the military as an independent political entity.

Sunni Arabs have been religiously attempting to restore things back to the way they were, an effort that we do not expect to see faltering anytime soon

Check out Kazimi's recent post on deba3thification for more on this.

Anonymous said...

Prior to 2003, American's believed the myth of Iraq's utter secularization

oh sure, i get it. this is why they proceeded to define everyone by sect.

nothing lies stagnant forever. things do change and evolve. sometimes it takes only a few generations to change the course of history. there is more power in unification, everyone knows this.

if you choose to believe iraqis are destined to be divided, that sects of islam will always be at eachothers throat, you guarentee to carry a tradition. but the sad thing, is that after only a few years since the invasion you could believe that the secular nature of iraq was a fleeting impossible thing, a myth that in fact never existed and could never survive. that only a short time after your friends death could you question if you ever were blind to what you now think always stood between you.

this is success in someones eyes. who does this serve. the suggestion a secular iraq was always only a myth....is that is a myth worth perpetuating?

it is for those who seek to divide iraq. if you believe it, they have one.

Anonymous said...


it is for those who seek to divide iraq. if you believe it, they have won

Don Cox said...

One good thing about the invasion is that it has made Iraqis (and those non-Iraqis who care) THINK very hard, and there is a lot of open discussion and argument that wasn't possible under Saddam.

Jeffrey said...

Don,

One good thing about the invasion is that it has made Iraqis (and those non-Iraqis who care) THINK very hard, and there is a lot of open discussion and argument that wasn't possible under Saddam.

Very true. Salam Pax began expressing his views even before Saddam was forced to ignomiously hide in the back of a taxi for his last trip out of Baghdad in April of 2003. Ghaith Abdul-Ahad followed that summer, revealing a keen eye for detail that would later aid him as a professional journalist. The rest, over the next few months, from the ITM brothers to the couch-bound Riverbend, began writing blog entries what would have been unthinkable just half a year earlier. (See "Let's Catch a Wave" for a chronological summary of the Iraqi bloggers.)

Iraqi-to-Iraqi debates have been hard to find, but over the last few months we're finally starting to see Iraqis really discussing issues with each other. For example, the Iraqi bloggers debated the new-flag issue for a couple days over at the Iraqi Blogodrome. Some agreed and others disagreed, just as one would expect on such a basic topic.

I think they may have migrated to Facebook. I really would like to follow more of those kinds of discussions.

And I wish, of course, more Iraqi bloggers would respond to Kid's fine article.

*

Anonymous said...

From 40% to 75% Shi'a in three years ... the Israelis couldn't clean up East Jerusalem that fast.

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